Our first property - seller says CU is older than 2005 - no cert required

[Benuk]

Hi all

We're moving in to our first property - it's a 1950's build. The house has been bought buy a property developer who bought it from the previous owner so that they could purchase a new build (part ex).

We had a survey done recently and one of the things that has come up is the lack of any kind of electrical certificate for the consumer unit. The property developer's solicitors have said that the previous owner had not had any electrical work done since they moved in (pre 2005) and as such a certificate was not required.

Fortunately I had the foresight to take some photos of it whilst I was there and to me it certainly looks newer than something that would have been installed 13-odd years ago. It is a split load MK CU with RCD etc. It's a metal box which as far as I'm aware is a recent requirement (17th edition?) and may not have even been available pre-2005. I've attached a couple of pictures to this email.

In my opinion some DIY'er or whoever has installed this unit without being qualified and obviously not able to supply a cert. But that's just my opinion - any help on identifying the year of this model would be appreciated.

Kind regards,

 

[SparkyChick]

No pictures, try again

 

[Benuk]

In my haste I hadn't attached them Should be there now.

 

[SparkyChick]

Definitely fitted after amendment 3 of the 17th (Dated 2015, the metal consumer unit part came into force in 2016).

Not to cast aspersions against the DIYers, but it looks like quite a nice tidy job... on the outside at least.

 

[Benuk]

Is that in reference to the 61439-3 BS number?

 

[Leesparkykent]

That isn't from 2005, it's recent.....well within the last 2-3 years.

 

[SparkyChick]

No, it's a metal MK Sentry Consumer unit of current design. I've fitted a few.

In England and Wales (Part P 2013 and 2010 editions respectively) there should have been a notification submitted to the local authority building control that the consumer unit has been replaced. There should also be an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work (a consumer unit change requires this).

 

[westward10]

MK actually design their boards so the mcbs all look pi**ed, nice design feature. I would have pushed for a test of it as a new board can cover a multitude of sins.

 

[Leesparkykent]

And another thing is the bonding isn't correct either as it's installed on the pipe with the magnetic filter which is usually the return to the boiler and not the incoming water.

 

[LankyWill]

Didn’t MK have a recall on some of its MCB’S? I can’t remember exactly because it’s not my go to brand.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Whilst metal Consumer Units have been available for donkey years, the particular Standard which the one in the picture is manufactured to has not.
That particular standard was introduced on 31/05/2012.
It would not have been possible to purchase a Consumer Unit manufactured to that standard prior to the standard being introduced.

 

[Benuk]

No, it's a metal MK Sentry Consumer unit of current design. I've fitted a few.

In England and Wales (Part P 2013 and 2010 editions respectively) there should have been a notification submitted to the local authority building control that the consumer unit has been replaced. There should also be an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work (a consumer unit change requires this).

Lovely- this is what I knew a little about and just need clarification on- am I able to contact the LABC to request this information or should I leave it up to our solicitors?

 

[Pete999]

Hi all

We're moving in to our first property - it's a 1950's build. The house has been bought buy a property developer who bought it from the previous owner so that they could purchase a new build (part ex).

We had a survey done recently and one of the things that has come up is the lack of any kind of electrical certificate for the consumer unit. The property developer's solicitors have said that the previous owner had not had any electrical work done since they moved in (pre 2005) and as such a certificate was not required.

Fortunately I had the foresight to take some photos of it whilst I was there and to me it certainly looks newer than something that would have been installed 13-odd years ago. It is a split load MK CU with RCD etc. It's a metal box which as far as I'm aware is a recent requirement (17th edition?) and may not have even been available pre-2005. I've attached a couple of pictures to this email.

In my opinion some DIY'er or whoever has installed this unit without being qualified and obviously not able to supply a cert. But that's just my opinion - any help on identifying the year of this model would be appreciated.

Kind regards,

View attachment 42750

View attachment 42751

It looks quite a tidy job, on the outside, to be honest, maybe done as a result of a cash only job with no certificate, not sure of the date, but if you are worried insist on an Electrical Installation Condition Report, (EICR) could be around £250:00 but who pays is unsure, as I have no information as to the state of the purchase.

 

[Andy78]

As said, this board was not available until changes to the regulations in 2015 prompted manufacturers to make metal consumer units.

An electrical installation certificate and building control certificate should be available, but not likely to be seeing as the homeowner is lying.

 

[Benuk]

And another thing is the bonding isn't correct either as it's installed on the pipe with the magnetic filter which is usually the return to the boiler and not the incoming water.

Good spot

 

[westward10]

Leave it up to your solicitor as there should have been Certification and notification to building control.

 

[westward10]

It looks quite a tidy job to be honest, maybe done as a result of a cash only job with no certificate, not sure of the date, but if you are worried insist on an Electrical Installation Condition Report, (EICR) could be around £250:00 but who pays is unsure, as I have no information as to the state of the purchase.

About as tidy as my hair in the morning

 

[Benuk]

It looks quite a tidy job to be honest, maybe done as a result of a cash only job with no certificate, not sure of the date, but if you are worried insist on an Electrical Installation Condition Report, (EICR) could be around £250:00 but who pays is unsure, as I have no information as to the state of the purchase.

It would bother me if this was the case and they've scrimped on a few hundred quid for something that once done properly should last many years. What else could they have scrimped on :-/ At this moment our/their solicitors are waiting for us to sign the forms to confirm the purchase so the onus should be on them to pay, I'd have thought? Or perhaps we just lower our offer based on the above, I'm not sure. As I say this is our first purchase so any advice is always appreciated

 

[Pete999]

It would bother me if this was the case and they've scrimped on a few hundred quid for something that once done properly should last many years. What else could they have scrimped on :-/ At this moment our/their solicitors are waiting for us to sign the forms to confirm the purchase so the onus should be on them to pay, I'd have thought? Or perhaps we just lower our offer based on the above, I'm not sure. As I say this is our first purchase so any advice is always appreciated

Knock 500 notes off the price subject to an EIC certificate or insist on an EICR paid for by the Vendor

 

[Strima]

Get them to pay for an EICR, you could pay and try and get some money knocked off the purchase price.

Also insist on 100% of circuits to be completed.

 

[Spoon]

No, it's a metal MK Sentry Consumer unit of current design. I've fitted a few.

In England and Wales (Part P 2013 and 2010 editions respectively) there should have been a notification submitted to the local authority building control that the consumer unit has been replaced. There should also be an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work (a consumer unit change requires this).

Hi @Benuk. Personally I wouldn't sign anything until you have seen the above or after one is done. You do not know the condition of the electrics and as you say, if they have lied about this then you never know what else they have done.

 

[SparkyChick]

I think you need to be a bit careful.

Talk to your solicitor. The suggestion about the EICR from the guys is good, but I might be inclined to get the work regularised with your LABC so there can be no question of you being responsible for it not being notified in the future.

 

[westward10]

I would insist on seeing the building control notification and an eicr.

 

[Benuk]

Thanks for the advice all Greatly appreciated

 

[Midwest]

Its definitely not been installed prior to...………………..Just thought I'd be about the 5th member to tell the OP that


OP, you could do a search on your local authority web site, to see if the new consumer unit change has been notified to them at that address. Such as you can for planning permissions, building regs approval on building work (thats if you reside in England & Wales). If it had been installed complying with Part P Building regs, it will be listed on the LBC web site. Not that will get you the required certification, but its a starting point.

 

[telectrix]

cynic in me says maybe the new CU is there to make the installation lookt he dog's bollox, but behind the walls there could be the pig's arse. get an eicr done as a start.

 

[Jamie']

Board Is also missing a blank at the end of the mcbs. What the other guys/gals have said previous is correct.

 

[netblindpaul]

Inspection and testing of electrical installations has been required by the "wiring regulations" since 1882, the first edition, it is there, I have a copy.
Certification has been required since the 14th Edition, my version is 1970.
Notification of such changes to Building Control under Building Regulations requirements has been necessary since 2005.
BS EN 61439-3 was published on the 31st May 2012.
So it seems that the property developer has not done his homework.
One word of caution, if you get an EICR done before purchase, then you will be purchasing the house with the known defects, thus you will have no legal recourse, I've just been there with a house purchase I was involved with.
If you get it done after, and it can be proven that false information was furnished to the solicitors/as a legal document, then you would have legal recourse.
It's an awkward situation, but either way it is difficult to decide, and prove.

 

[Risteard]

I see an obvious C1 defect on that DB.

 

[Octopus]

One thing for sure is that the seller is lying..............

 

[Squid]

No, it's a metal MK Sentry Consumer unit of current design. I've fitted a few.

In England and Wales (Part P 2013 and 2010 editions respectively) there should have been a notification submitted to the local authority building control that the consumer unit has been replaced. There should also be an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work (a consumer unit change requires this).

You must be fun on a date night out hun ;o))))

 

[SparkyChick]

You must be fun on a date night out hun ;o))))

I think I've said before... my favourite topics of conversation are complex technical problems and hearing stories and anecdotes from people I can learn from. That and the obvious small talk around personal interests and such (I like to know what makes people tick).

The obvious sexism you exhibit aside (which I think is you just flexing your male ego to be one of the lads - which I don't really have a problem with as I find a lot of male posturing quite funny), I think you and I could have a right good chat.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Board Is also missing a blank at the end of the mcbs. What the other guys/gals have said previous is correct

and circuit 1 Rcd supply .now why would you put that on when is Rcd protected .

 

[Squid]

I think I've said before... my favourite topics of conversation are complex technical problems and hearing stories and anecdotes from people I can learn from. That and the obvious small talk around personal interests and such (I like to know what makes people tick).

The obvious sexism you exhibit aside (which I think is you just flexing your male ego to be one of the lads - which I don't really have a problem with as I find a lot of male posturing quite funny), I think you and I could have a right good chat.

I am not sexist, I am a European male of Polish heritage and am a gentleman, I have been taught to treat women with the utmost respect and to some how put them on a pedastal (might be a tad tough with a 18 stone Welsh lass), seeing you are a downtrodden Welsh lass you tar all males with the same brush, you really need a "proper" man in your life ;o))))

Funnily enough I was bought up with women, most of my friends are women (No I am not gay) so I know the secrets........

As you said, I'd reckon we could have a right laugh on a night out, sleep tight ---

 

[buzzlightyear]

(might be a tad tough with a 18 stone Welsh lass),

mmm, swd so what are you saying.

 

[Squid]

mmm, swd so what are you saying.

I posted that up in the past, SC wasn't impressed with Nessa as no Knipex tools in the bra holster.

 

[Des 56]

Sparkychic lives here in Wales

She has yet to qualify as being anywhere near a 18 stone Welsh
( lass ) lady

There are no such things as downtrodden Welsh lasses
Our womenfolk are a more forceful band than us males,they would be too much woman to handle for you outsiders

 

[SparkyChick]

might be a tad tough with a 18 stone Welsh lass

You shouldn't have any problems with me then as I'm not that big

seeing you are a downtrodden Welsh lass you tar all males with the same brush, you really need a "proper" man in your life ;o))))

Don't have time for any man in my life. Have too many things I want to do and most of them involve being somewhat anti-social.

 

[freddo]

Not to cast aspersions against the DIYers, but it looks like quite a nice tidy job... on the outside at least.

We have very different levels of standard. For a start there is a blank missing...

 

[SparkyChick]

We have very different levels of standard. For a start there is a blank missing...

I did say on the outside... it was a very quick look. What caught my eye was the fact the tails were nicely clipped

 

[buzzlightyear]

 

[Squid]

Sparkychic lives here in Wales

She has yet to qualify as being anywhere near a 18 stone Welsh
( lass ) lady

There are no such things as downtrodden Welsh lasses
Our womenfolk are a more forceful band than us males,they would be too much woman to handle for you outsiders

No wonder the Welsh men want to fight everyone else when they are ----ed as they get beaten up by their women. Thanks for clearing that one up as if I get attacked by a Welshman, I'll set my petite girlfriend against them,

Maybe the English rugby squads next game against the Welsh should field the woman team.......

 

[Squid]

Germen for I Serve, yep that sums the Welsh up........;o)))))

 

[buzzlightyear]

Germen for I Serve, yep that sums the Welsh up

there was one language her madman Hitler could not get a grips with the welsh language, fact.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

is it me as i dont have my contacts in!!! but the tails and main earth enter in different holes on that CU?
Personally I would speak to your solicitor, likely outcome is knock a few hundred off the sale to cover a subsequent eicr and any remedials.
Also any EICR should be done by an electrician of your choosign and not theres as it could be a mate who gives a clean bill of health but really there is lots of issues.
likely though you will get offered an indmenity policy by the sellers side but if they knowingly lie and say no work post 2005 when there clearly has been then its possible it could be invalidated, make that clear to your solicitors as they wont want to be involved in swindling the insurance firms!
safest route is seller pays for building control to regularise it. as long as its not the sellers mate doing the inspection!
Certainly room for it to be a way of price reduction

 

[Squid]

there was one language her madman Hitler could not get a grips with the welsh language, fact.

He wa planning on a move to Wales on retirement.......

 

[Des 56]

For a self proclaimed patriotic Polish/Englander,do you realise you are being self defacing
So many immigrants from Poland have settled here (especially in the fifties) that a dilution of that Polish blood is probably a factor in our women being naturally powerful matriarchs in a typical Welsh household

The men need never to demonstrate their toughness to these women
The Welsh women can see that masculinity for themselves,especially when our lads destroy the Rugby manhood of a nation that boasts a 20 -1 superiority ratio in numbers

 

[mattg4321]

Who cares about egg chasers?!

Looking forward to the World Cup over there? Maybe not so much!

 

[Des 56]

Agreed,it seems much of the very important messaging that needed the best of security was conveyed in Welsh in both world wars

 

[Des 56]

Who cares about egg chasers?!

I hope England win "in" the world cup
After all one win is possible,unlikely but still its possible

After seeing them defeated for 50 years against the top boys it tends to get a little monotonous