3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes this ?

[spark 68]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Well that's the usual sequence of events Marvo,
A poorly fitting or tarnished plug that runs too hot, the contacts in the socket run too hot and lose their spring, which then makes the plug to run even hotter... and so on and so on, thermal runaway.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Does the 'heat' occur with other appliances, kettle for example. It seems like a plug/lead problem, other checks could back this up.

"Hello ipf",

Unfortunately She does not have an Electric Kettle - She uses a Kettle on the Gas Hob - I had thought to check the Sockets with one - She also does not have any other 1 - 2 or 3 KW Appliances / Heaters.

As I mentioned previously I will be taking another 3 KW Heater when I visit again soon and I will check whether the Plug Pins get Hot on that.


Thanks for your reply.


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Other possibilities are poorly manufactured plugs with incorrect pin dimensions or even a problem with excessive wear of the actual sockets it's being plugged into etc.

"Thanks again",

The Pins are actually `Hot` - way past Body Heat - I am sure that they are FAR Too Hot - which is why I asked about this on the Forum.

I will look at the Plug again when I go back - but I definitely did not see any corrosion on the Pins and the Plug seems to Me to be an O.K. Fit - definitely not either Too Loose or Too Tight - But it could easily be the case that the Strands of the Wires are not complete regarding the size of the cores - I will check this.


Chris





Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Well that's the usual sequence of events Marvo,
A poorly fitting or tarnished plug that runs too hot, the contacts in the socket run too hot and lose their spring, which then makes the plug to run even hotter... and so on and so on, thermal runaway.

"Hello spark 68",


Thanks for your reply and description of the process that can cause `Heat Up` of the Plug / Plug Pins - I appreciate your interest and the information in your Post.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Richard]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Hello Chris,

Although these plugs are rated to 13A, I don't beleive that they are really suiatable for 3KW for extended periods of time. I have seen a couple of these sorts of plugs with badly melted pins/plugs in the past where people have left from on flat out for prolonged periods. Beause their only 'push-in' terminations, I don't think their really capabable of handling large loads for a long time (thats only my opinion).

Personally, I would doubt that there is anything majorly wrong, but possibly advise you client not to have the thermostat set too high. Also, you could change the outlet if you wanted to eliminate worn terminals...?

 

[Guitarist]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Chris, it's very unlikely to be a fault with the appliance, and if it gets hot in every socket then it's unlikely to be the installation. As many of us have already said, it will most likely be badly done wiring/loose connection in the plug or tarnished pins causing more resistance. Small cable will run hotter and I have known that contribute to heat transfer into the plug pins.
Anyway, once the new heater arrives you can sleep easy

Btw, to discount the installation take the heater home and try it there.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Hello Chris,

Although these plugs are rated to 13A, I don't beleive that they are really suiatable for 3KW for extended periods of time. I have seen a couple of these sorts of plugs with badly melted pins/plugs in the past where people have left from on flat out for prolonged periods. Beause their only 'push-in' terminations, I don't think their really capabable of handling large loads for a long time (thats only my opinion).

Personally, I would doubt that there is anything majorly wrong, but possibly advise you client not to have the thermostat set too high. Also, you could change the outlet if you wanted to eliminate worn terminals...?

"Hello Richard",

Thanks for your reply - I am fairly sure that the `Fit` of the Plug Pins is not Too Tight or Too Loose - I had thought about this possibility when I was trying the Heater in various Sockets around the Home - all of the [5 Year old] Sockets seemed to be O.K. regarding the `Plugging in` fit.

Although the Heater is fairly Old it was usually left plugged into the same Socket - since the Home was rewired about 5 Years ago - and before that it was left plugged into the previous Socket Outlet in the same room.

I might not have been too concerned if the Plug was `Warm` when the Heater was set on the 3 KW output - But it was definitely Too Hot - and also Too Hot when the Heater was set on 1 KW.


I am sure that when I investigate the Plug terminations that I will probably find that some of the strands of copper in one or more of the cores are missing - I could not see from just taking the Plug apart as I did not have a terminal screwdriver - I was visiting a Family member when She mentioned this problem to Me.

Whatever happens I will be explaining the options available on a New Dimplex Fanned Convector Heater - Thermostatic Control [which actually turns Off the Heater] and a Timer option which might be helpful for Autumn Mornings - and I will help to obtain a New Heater for Her.


Thanks again for your message - I appreciate your interest.

Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Chris, it's very unlikely to be a fault with the appliance, and if it gets hot in every socket then it's unlikely to be the installation. As many of us have already said, it will most likely be badly done wiring/loose connection in the plug or tarnished pins causing more resistance. Small cable will run hotter and I have known that contribute to heat transfer into the plug pins.
Anyway, once the new heater arrives you can sleep easy

Btw, to discount the installation take the heater home and try it there.

"Hello Guitarist",


Thanks for your latest reply - the reason that I mentioned the Plug getting Hot in all of the Sockets on different Rings was to possibly eliminate the probability of a `Faulty Circuit` [please excuse the terminology] - I tried various outlets around the Home because I felt that would definitely be appropriate when asking about this on the Forum.

I know that doing this did NOT necessarily mean that there was NOT a problem with the Electrical Installation - but I would have expected that the first thing I would have been asked on here is `Does the Plug heat up in other Sockets - including those on another Ring` - ?

I will check out the Plug wiring - and probably take the Heater Home to try it - IF I can persuade My relative to dispose of it - I could not take it Home when I visited Her as I was going to the Pub afterwards and I was not Driving.

Whatever happens I will try to Insist that She buys a New Fanned Convector Heater - for both Safety purposes and the fact that it would be more Controllable - Thermostatically and a Timed Option.


Thanks very much for your help and suggestions / information.

Regards,

Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

"Hello All",

I have been back to My elderly relatives Home and looked at the Plug on the Electric Fan Heater - as the Members on here advised Me would probably be the case the Live and Neutral wires had strands missing / cut off when the Plug was being wired - probably at least a Third of the strands on each wire were not connected in the terminals !

I rewired the Plug - as expected when I then ran the Fan Heater on 3 KW the Plug Pins did NOT get `Too Hot` - although as also expected / mentioned by Members there was some `Warmth` at the Plug Top and the Pins.


As Her Heater is very Old [20 + Years at least] I have convinced My relative to purchase a New Dimplex 3KW [plus 1 KW & 2 KW Settings] Fanned Convector Heater.

I saw one of these working during the Winter and it Heated up the Room in a surprisingly short period of time - So as it has a Thermostatic Control [Not just the Temperature Setting] and a Timer facility it will be much better than the Temperature Setting only of Her Old Fanned Heater.


Thank You very much to the Members who helped Me with this - I really appreciate your time and the information that You all posted for Me.

Although there was one Member who obviously thought that I was an `Idiot` and questioned whether I was an `Engineer` [Heating Engineer] - after I had almost apologetically explained why I would NOT have known that Plugs on 3 KW Electric Heaters could get Very HOT.

I had stated that as a Heating Engineer I had never have been in the situation of coming across this Faulty Plug Wiring before - regarding this producing VERY Hot Plug Pins.

Thanks very much to the very helpful Members who did NOT treat Me like an Idiot - but who helped Me to solve this possibly Dangerous problem - those Members did NOT feel that answering My [Very simple to them] question was `Beneath them`.

I have to state that My next visit would have been to look at the Plug Wiring - even without having asked about this on the Forum - So I would have found the situation with the missing / cut off strands.


BUT - I was TOLD what the problem was likely to be by the Professionals on here which I was very grateful for.


Regards,


Chris - [Heating Engineer]

 

[Guitarist]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Glad you got it sorted Chris.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Glad you got it sorted Chris.

"Hello Guitarist",

Thanks very much for all of your help and information - I really appreciate it that You did not view My question as `Too Obvious / Trivial` to answer.

I personally would never think that any question from an Electrician or any other Profession or Trade about a Central Heating or Plumbing System was `Too Obvious` / `To Trivial` to answer - some other Members obviously think differently about `Simple` Electrical questions - as I found out.

I might also answer a `general` question about Gas as long as I felt the person would NOT try to work on it themselves - and I would have to try and ensure that I did not give enough information to make it something that they thought could be done by them [Hopefully] because of the obvious Danger involved.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

"Hello All",

I have been back to My elderly relatives Home and looked at the Plug on the Electric Fan Heater - as the Members on here advised Me would probably be the case the Live and Neutral wires had strands missing / cut off when the Plug was being wired - probably at least a Third of the strands on each wire were not connected in the terminals !

I rewired the Plug - as expected when I then ran the Fan Heater on 3 KW the Plug Pins did NOT get `Too Hot` - although as also expected / mentioned by Members there was some `Warmth` at the Plug Top and the Pins.


As Her Heater is very Old [20 + Years at least] I have convinced My relative to purchase a New Dimplex 3KW [plus 1 KW & 2 KW Settings] Fanned Convector Heater.

I saw one of these working during the Winter and it Heated up the Room in a surprisingly short period of time - So as it has a Thermostatic Control [Not just the Temperature Setting] and a Timer facility it will be much better than the Temperature Setting only of Her Old Fanned Heater.


Thank You very much to the Members who helped Me with this - I really appreciate your time and the information that You all posted for Me.

Although there was one Member who obviously thought that I was an `Idiot` and questioned whether I was an `Engineer` [Heating Engineer] - after I had almost apologetically explained why I would NOT have known that Plugs on 3 KW Electric Heaters could get Very HOT.

I had stated that as a Heating Engineer I had never have been in the situation of coming across this Faulty Plug Wiring before - regarding this producing VERY Hot Plug Pins.

Thanks very much to the very helpful Members who did NOT treat Me like an Idiot - but who helped Me to solve this possibly Dangerous problem - those Members did NOT feel that answering My [Very simple to them] question was `Beneath them`.

I have to state that My next visit would have been to look at the Plug Wiring - even without having asked about this on the Forum - So I would have found the situation with the missing / cut off strands.


BUT - I was TOLD what the problem was likely to be by the Professionals on here which I was very grateful for.


Regards,


Chris - [Heating Engineer]

I said nowt because I knew you'd get there in the end - and you did !!!

(Glad you got it all sorted)

 

[Knobhead]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Chris, keep in mind the ones that haven’t been helpful, they may have trouble with their heating in the future. The boot will be on the other foot then :biggrinjester:

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

I said nowt because I knew you'd get there in the end - and you did !!!

(Glad you got it all sorted)

"Hello Geordie Spark",

Thanks for the message - I thought that You as a fellow `Worker with Gas`would have been one of the first to help Me with My Question - Just Joking - good to hear from You.


Regards,

Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Chris, keep in mind the ones that haven’t been helpful, they may have trouble with their heating in the future. The boot will be on the other foot then :biggrinjester:

"Hello Tony",

Thanks for your message - I would probably still Help with their questions - I was more disappointed with the attitude of the Member than I was annoyed and I would not begrudge Him my Help - even if it involved a `Simple` Question.


Regards,

Chris

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

"Hello Geordie Spark",

Thanks for the message - I thought that You as a fellow `Worker with Gas`would have been one of the first to help Me with My Question - Just Joking - good to hear from You.

Regards,

Chris

As a fellow worker with gas, I had every confidence in ye bonny lad. I'm pleased to see my confidence wasn't misplaced.

It will be interesting to see how some of the sparks here cope with finding that elusive intermittent fault on their combis that we've had to deal with.

All the Best.

 

[UKMeterman]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Hi,
If there are any concerns about the plug try fitting one of these 646WHI - MK (ELECTRIC) - PLUG, SAFETY, 13A, WHITE | Farnell United Kingdom these particular plugs have a very good terminal for wireing to and are the best for 3 bar electric fires. I would suggest that you may wish to consider being kind to her and buy an new convector heater and show her how to use the thermostat.

 

[ipf]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

As a fellow worker with gas, I had every confidence in ye bonny lad. I'm pleased to see my confidence wasn't misplaced.

It will be interesting to see how some of the sparks here cope with finding that elusive intermittent fault on their combis that we've had to deal with.

All the Best.

Not my field. I'd call in a heating engineer. Why waste time on problems you're not familiar with, or, in some cases, not qualified to work on. (Still can't understand why the pipes going to my rads get so hot though Chris.lol.)

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

Hi,
If there are any concerns about the plug try fitting one of these 646WHI - MK (ELECTRIC) - PLUG, SAFETY, 13A, WHITE | Farnell United Kingdom these particular plugs have a very good terminal for wireing to and are the best for 3 bar electric fires. I would suggest that you may wish to consider being kind to her and buy an new convector heater and show her how to use the thermostat.

"Hello UK Meterman",


Thanks for the useful information about the MK Plug - I will remember that for the future.

Regarding Me purchasing a Thermostatically Controlled / Timed [Dimplex] Fanned Convector Heater for My relative - I always intended to do this and I will be buying one tomorrow which I will give to Her and obviously show Her how to use / set the Thermostat etc.

When I wrote about `convincing Her to purchase a new Fanned Convector Heater` it was always My intention to purchase this for Her as She is elderly and does not have any `Spare Money` - as You wrote - `to be kind to Her`.


Thanks again for the Info. - and for reminding Me to `Be Kind to Her`.


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: 3 KW fan heater plug `Pins` are Hot when pulled out of socket - What causes thi

As a fellow worker with gas, I had every confidence in ye bonny lad. I'm pleased to see my confidence wasn't misplaced.

It will be interesting to see how some of the sparks here cope with finding that elusive intermittent fault on their combis that we've had to deal with.

All the Best.

"Hello Geordie Spark",


Thanks for your compliment - I must admit that I was a bit `irked` by the comment from the Member who gave the comment which amounted to `Call Yourself an Engineer` ! ? !

I can imagine that because My question was about something that Electrical Apprentices would know - I would have been viewed as `Ignorant` regarding `Simple` Electrical matters - BUT - the results of different Resistance values is NOT uppermost in My Limited Electrical knowledge.

I HAVE `learned` about this and many other Electrical Theories in the past but because I have never needed to use them - I have forgotten all of it - I am posting an explanation about this below.


"Thanks again Geordie Spark".

Regards,

Chris