UK 3 phase domestic supply

[mattg4321]

It’s hard to not be sceptical of someone’s views who is so fanatical about something for no obvious reason.

Been on any marches this weekend?

 

[John-SJW]

It’s hard to not be sceptical of someone’s views who is so fanatical about something for no obvious reason.

Been on any marches this weekend?

I go by facts and analysis. I gave them with supporting links. I leave opinions to drunks in pubs, as entertaining as they are.

 

[UNG]

Many EVs have over the magic 200 miles range. Some 330. So range anxiety is not a problem as it was.

Until manufacturers start delivering real world figures for a rainy winters day at -5°C the skepticism will prevail as to the viability of the EV

New battery technology will make that even better. I mentioned Tesla's new battery of a million charges, with only 10% degradation in 30 years. This is now.

That's strange, earlier you said

The new solid state Toyota battery:

• The prototype cells can fully charge in 15 minutes;
• Capacity loss of just 10% over 30 years;
• Millions of recharges before any degradation;
• Fully recharged in less than 15 minutes;
• Half the size and weight of existing batteries for the same storage;
• The price will be roughly the same as current batteries - in effect half the price.

Others are also working on solid state batteries.

The price of EVs is dropping like a stone. Once they are at parity with petrol cars the end with be quick for the ICE car. We are at the tipping point for EVs.

Given the lifespan of a car could be 15 - 20 years the ICE could be around for longer than you think

Yes, every lamp post can be a charger. Electricity is everywhere. Stuck with a flat battery? Take a small get you home charge from a passing car. His car bills yours automatically - in and out of each account..

Are we going to install lamp posts closer together to facilitate EV charging I doubt it
A get you home charge from a passing car who may have limited battery life isn't really going to happen plus there is the added inconvenience for the driver who stops

UNG, I see you are a doom and gloom merchant, ignoring the fact that EVs are taking off like wildfire.

It looks like you never looked at the Seba video then.

HMG are looking like setting 10 years to stop selling fossil fuelled cars.

No doom and gloom just look deeper into and have a better understanding of the realities of the technology than you and your social media influencer Seba do

Stopping selling fossil fueled cars is one thing stopping there use is another


Just to add some doom and gloom
There are a lot of issues yet to be addressed regarding EV's not least a multi EV accident where a fire occurs, talking to some firefighters a while ago and they said the only thing they can do is watch it burn for several days due to the voltages involved, they fully expect road closures to last days if there is an EV fire as it would likely be a smouldering reigniting fire that without breaking the battery apart would be difficult to put out and would be very dangerous for those trying

 

[plugsandsparks]

Apparently you can tow some EVs to charge them up, wonder if the AA will offer this as a get you home service, lol

TBH home charging is fantasy island, not going to happen, impossible. We cannot even get broadband at decent speeds because of the infrastructure. Local LV is the same,

The only way forward is Supercharging parked up under a Pylon...........

 

[nicebutdim]

There are a lot of issues yet to be addressed regarding EV's not least a multi EV accident where a fire occurs, talking to some firefighters a while ago and they said the only thing they can do is watch it burn for several days due to the voltages involved, they fully expect road closures to last days if there is an EV fire as it would likely be a smouldering reigniting fire that without breaking the battery apart would be difficult to put out and would be very dangerous for those trying

A lot of people reading this thread will be aware of the energy expended by a single lithium-ion cell in the event of thermal runaway caused by short circuit, heat or other damage. I'm not sure if any of us could really imagine the consequences of an entire EV battery pack meeting such a fate.

More recent developments in lithium battery technology have seen the flames taken out of this equation, but that does not resolve the huge volumes of extremely hot gases that vent from cells in a fraction of a second.

Possibly this will be partially resolved by future advances in battery technology, but it would be difficult to resolve entirely given the huge amount of energy harnessed in such battery packs.

 

[Zerax]

The economics clearly stack up looking at all the panels on top of commercial buildings.

Wrong... the reasons why we see them on commercial buildings is mainly so that the company can say "look at us, look how much we care about the environment"

PV panels on domestics only work when there's a FIT attached. As soon as you take this out of the equation, they have a payback period of 30+ years !

At present, all this stuff about installing PV or Battery Storage or Ground Source Heat Pumps is largely of a 'hobby' type status... largely because it doesn't make any economic sense. Grid sourced electricity is still the cheapest source for domestic supply. Of course, this may change in the future, and I hope it does.
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Possibly this will be partially resolved by future advances in battery technology, but it would be difficult to resolve entirely given the huge amount of energy harnessed in such battery packs.

I'm no expert... but I seem to recall Lithium Titanate chemistry is literally bullet proof. It has other faults, like an inefficient charge cycle, but it's certainly extremely stable.
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We cannot even get broadband at decent speeds because of the infrastructure.

But that's caused by Openreach... which, even though they were privatised back in the 80's, is still run very much like a government department. I.e. hopelessly inefficient.
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The Fully Charged channel did a vid a number of years ago pointing out that one refinery alone consumed the equiv electricity of Leicester and Coventry combined.

Just a word of warning... do not believe everything you hear on Fully Charged. They obviously have an agenda that they pushing and they like to twist things to fit that agenda.

 

[UNG]

But that's caused by Openreach... which, even though they were privatised back in the 80's, is still run very much like a government department. I.e. hopelessly inefficient.

Openreach and BT are still run by the government under OFCOM's stewardship, OFCOM never take a pop at any of the other licenced comms suppliers like the do with BT and Openreach. You only have to look at the Mercury Communications debacle in the 90's BT had to allow use without payment of the telephone network until Mercury got 15% of the market, Mercury thought they still got use of the 14% without payment when they hit 15% when it was pointed out they had to pay for it all their business model fell over and they disappeared from he market.
Sky and Talk Talk do many underhanded things regarding faults and orders with Openreach so that Openreach have to pay compensation to them for not meeting performance targets, I know people in BT / Openreach so hear a lot of what goes on from the inside
Why is it never Virgin Media, Talk Talk or Sky's fault that superfast broadband isn't available in remote areas
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Just a word of warning... do not believe everything you hear on Fully Charged. They obviously have an agenda that they pushing and they like to twist things to fit that agenda.

Hard to get a balanced view from this type of site when they are promoting the biased view

 

[davesparks]

Yes, every lamp post can be a charger. Electricity is everywhere.

This shows an incredible lack of understanding, your average lamppost does not have a big enough supply for anything more than a very slow trickle charge.
Lamp posts are usually fused, as far as I know, at 6A,10A or 16A so at most they could deliver 3.5kW. That's only enough for the smallest, slowest, 3kW chargers.
That won't be available at every lamppost on a circuit either due to the application of diversity in the design.

Yes electricity is everywhere, but it isn't everywhere in large enough supplies or cable sizes.

 

[Mike Johnson]

In real world terms my pals Nissan EV was supposed to be capable of 150mile in reality only 80, will be interesting as he has just changed to a Kia who he was advised is capable of 300mile, I'm just waiting to say "I told you so"

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

The top man at National Grid is more than likely a bean counter with no concept of delivering what is generated to the point of utilisation. It has to be understood that a lot of the local DNO infrastructure certainly in my area was installed 70 - 90 years ago so is grossly undersized in parts add to this that the DNO's diversity allows something like 3 - 5Kw per property depending on whether there is a gas supply really throws into doubt the local networks ability to cope with EV charging.
With regard to power generation AFAIK we still import electricity from France and to fill in the peaks in demand we use pumped storage generation that uses off peak generated electricity to pump the water back up the mountain so will overnight EV charging impact on this due to reducing the amount of off peak electricity available and thus altering the current generation profile

None of this takes into account most households having 2 or more vehicles which if EV's become the norm all will possibly need charging at some point overnight

This figure of 3-5Kw per property for the DNO's diversity calculations is on the generous side. It's actually more like 2.5Kw per property.