Discuss 400 Volt Single Phase Welder in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

B

Blueday

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Hi everyone,
A friend has bought a 400 volt single phase welder for his workshop and has asked me to install a supply and connect it up.

Having not seen the welder yet and never been involved with anything like this before could anyone enlighten me as to the supply for 400 volt single phase. Do I run a single phase supply to the welder and the welder steps the voltage up or do I require a 3-phase supply to the welder.
There is a 3-phase supply to the workshop.

Many thanks in advance.
 
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T

Tiger

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Never heard of a 400v single phase welder, need more info. :confused:
 
G

Guest123

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  • #3
Agree with him on this ^^^ no such thing as 400V single phase. Must be 3 phase, double check the plate on the welder small ones usually 40A single phase 230V. Larger ones 3 phase 415V.

Possibly 3P inverter needed.

Cheers.
 
P

poheZ

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
i think you mean you have a single phase supply?

In which case you need need a transformer/inverter to change the supply to 400v 3 phase and then run a supply to welder (as 3 phase) after that.
 
B

Blueday

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Thanks for all the replies.

Mate is convinced it says 400 volt single phase.

After a quick search on Google I came up with this, don't think its the same welder;

BLUMIG 283C 280amp MIG Welder
Heavy duty three phase compact MIG/MAG machine, with 4 roll industrial feed system. Features include Electronic Auto Adjust for ease of set up, 2/4 torch latching, large robust casing, burn back and slope up control. Ideal for production heavy maintenance and fabrication. 400 volt Input, 16 amp, Welding Current Range 35 - 280 amps, Duty Cycle @ 40% 250amps, 10 Welding Steps, Wire Sizes 0.6 -1.2mm.
415 volt Single phase
 
T

Tiger

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Thats clear as mud :D states 3 phase and single in the same sentance
 
Hi everyone,
A friend has bought a 400 volt single phase welder for his workshop and has asked me to install a supply and connect it up.

Having not seen the welder yet and never been involved with anything like this before could anyone enlighten me as to the supply for 400 volt single phase. Do I run a single phase supply to the welder and the welder steps the voltage up or do I require a 3-phase supply to the welder.
There is a 3-phase supply to the workshop.

Many thanks in advance.
could be american.I think you would be safer taking a look at it yourself,you might be able to better google your info then.But if you are in uk you will need at least 2 phases to get your 400volts,unless you have a step up tranny.But as Benji says its most likely 2phase.
 

ian.settle1

-
Mentor
Arms
Agree with him on this ^^^ no such thing as 400V single phase. Must be 3 phase, double check the plate on the welder small ones usually 40A single phase 230V. Larger ones 3 phase 415V.

Possibly 3P inverter needed.

Cheers.

What would he need an 3P invertor for? an invertor converts DC to AC.

Inverter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you mean a 3P static convertor?
 
Last edited:
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Yes, apologies I meant converter. Dont know were I got inverter from:eek::eek:
 
K

KathrynLeng

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Thanks for all the replies.

Mate is convinced it says 400 volt single phase.

After a quick search on Google I came up with this, don't think its the same welder;

BLUMIG 283C 280amp MIG Welder
Heavy duty three phase compact MIG/MAG machine, with 4 roll industrial feed system. Features include Electronic Auto Adjust for ease of set up, 2/4 torch latching, large robust casing, burn back and slope up control. Ideal for production heavy maintenance and fabrication. 400 volt Input, 16 amp, Welding Current Range 35 - 280 amps, Duty Cycle @ 40% 250amps, 10 Welding Steps, Wire Sizes 0.6 -1.2mm.
415 volt Single phase

Thanks for your information.
I really appreciate for giving this information.
I expect you will also give this type of information in future.
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Thanks Once Again!!!!!!!
__________________
Industrial Touch up
 
Thanks for your information.
I really appreciate for giving this information.
I expect you will also give this type of information in future.
you will also find me at my site [below]
Thanks Once Again!!!!!!!
__________________
Industrial Touch up
Are you high?
 
S

Spectric

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Hi there

I own a 300 amp Tig welder, it is rated at 415 volts & is connected across two of the phases . There is a lot of welding equipment that is wired like this due to the current demand.

Roy
 
M

mikeohms

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
You have been mislead by many of us whose theoretical knowledge is a bite rusty. Let this be known to everyone you can derive 400v single phase to feed a load from a 3phase supply
For Single phase 230v any of your phase i.e. Gray Black Brown and neutral = Single phase 230v
However to derive Single phase 400v = connecting gray and black without the neutral to the Load
This is still single phase because one of the cable is acting as neutral i.e. a return path back to the substation I hope this helps. Your Voltage 400v is only derived from one cable at any point in time that why its called single phase but taken from a 3 phase supply
There is nothing wrong with the wording on the welder specifications its very correct its is a single phase 400V welder full stop it couldn't be more correct there will only be two point to connect input cable into it for your x2 phase cable from your 3 phase supply. Pls note your neutral is not part of your phase cable.
Balancing your supply is another matter entirely!!!!!!!!!
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Ok, but you still need two PHASES to get 400V so in my opinion it should be described as 2 Phase.

Only my take on it.
 
M

mikeohms

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
it is a bit more complicated than that if you look at sinusidal wave and who voltage is derive you have maximum and minimum but your voltage at any point in time is derived from only one of your phase cable not two that is why its called single phase.
you can not have two phase supply because you always need one cable to act as a return part i.e. neutral
you can not have a load without a neutral part
Phase means supply or input not return or neutral although you can see two phase cable comming in but in reality only on is for supply the other is neutal
Trust me on this
thanks
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
I'm sorry but technically it is 2 phases because as you said one is only acting as neutral, and it isn't earth so that only leaves phase, and as they are 120' apart on the wavefrom then yes I agree one is the return path, but it is phase.
 
M

mikeohms

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
but it can not be a return path and phase at any point in time so you can not call the two cable supply or phase cables because at any point in time one is supply and the other is neutral.
You can suggest a better way of calling them, as long as you know that is what its technically call for the time being
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
I completely agree with what your saying and technically the same can be said for purely balanced 3 phase supplies also as they are all at 120' angles to one another which is why no seperate neutral is needed.

I feel that some terminology not just in this instance but on various others is confusing/misleading to people who dont have the knowledge, take this welder as a prime example - it's being sold on the internet to anyone who wishes to buy it but described as single phase which to anyone else means just that L,N+E

Thanks.
 
K

kung

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Got mine from screwfix ! plugged into mains and away i went practising on the mrs car door !
 
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