Discuss 50 year old radial sockets at floor level in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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electrician4u

Doing a re-wire for a customer who doesn't want surface mini trunking, can't channel walls and wants me to use 50 year old conduit to re-wire.It was originally wired as a radial circuit and don't think I'd get 2x2.5 mm T & E's down the conduit.Assuming the kitchen can be done seperately, could I re-wire the rest of the sockets as a radial and put it on a 20 breaker? Another problem is existing sockets cut into skirting at floor level.Is it compusory to raise these to above 450mm or can I just mark it as a deviation?
 

ExArmy

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and socket heights can stay, it's not a new build. part M only applies to a new build (domestic dwellings)
 

Strima

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As long as you can get access to the draw boxes etc just wiring it in singles should be straight forward enough. A lot less cleaning up as well.
 

Brightspark2

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But you could also run one 2.5mm in and make it a 20A radial...so there's the options...depending on calcs of course...

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Plonker 3

But you could also run one 2.5mm in and make it a 20A radial...so there's the options...depending on calcs of course...

Sent from my Xperia S using next doors WIFI.
But if there is more than 1 socket then you will need to pull 2 x 2.5 twin and earth cables up the conduit.
 

ExArmy

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I'd be concerned about stressing the flexes entering the plug tops. You can get some skirting trunking that doesn't look too hideous.
good point i missed that, i read it as they were ontop of the skirting boards. i changed a board at a house recently that had sockets on the skirting, couldn't get my plugtop lead in some and had to use a socket and see tester as they were so low. i told the customer they should be raised and wrote it on the cert in the comments section
 

jenions

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For some reason I always remember someone telling me that you cudnt have sockets in/on skirting board :/ can't remember why. Only thing I ever thought was that it is a fire hazard.



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jenions

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Ooooo like I said It was one of them things that I cudnt quite remember the reason just that someone had said it to me. At least I know now ey

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Adam W

Just put the sockets on upside down, then there won't be any stress on the flexes. Simples.
 

Des 56

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Pulling 4.0mm singles through the conduit will be almost certainly be just as easy or hard as pulling 2.5mm and give more leeway

You will probably find the conduit is also via the kitchen,this will open up more options for pulling in extra cores or including the kitchen sockets,there will also more likely be a pipe for the cooker circuit that could be utilised for a seperate kitchen supply,radial or ring

The possibilities are many and these need to be decided upon beforehand, in the light of what pipes are existing and what can be wired to where
If I survey a property and there are conduits,I tend to think this is a lucky day indeed
 
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Adam W

My Aunt has some sockets mounted in the skirting and on two of them the sockets are mounted upside down! (not by me)
For some reason that reminds me of my old primary school; in one of the classrooms there were only about 3 single sockets, the most 'accessible' one being in a corner, up by the ceiling. If the teacher wanted to play us a tape she'd stand on a chair to reach the socket, plug in the tape player and balance it on the top corner of the wendy house, held up by the flex.
'Health & Safety' would have had a field day if they'd gone in there and if they'd existed at the time.
 
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Guest55

I dont see the point of some half-ased rewire that wont allow wall chases , ring mains , and reuses old socket positions in skirting ???
Its either done to current standards or walk , to be quite blunt.
 

La Poste

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If you can only get one cable down each conduit why not use the crab configuration for the radial.

Apparently it's quite popular in France.
 
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Adam W

One problem you might find using old conduit is if it's in imperial sizes in which case you might struggle to find parts.
You might be able to chase up a foot or so and cengar off the tube, but good luck getting a stock in there to thread it, or even finding the right die if it's imperial.
 
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electrician4u

I thought about the upside down socket route but you know what people are like.They'll take one look and say:what a f..ing idiot, he's put it upside down!The guy who said the min height of sockets only applies to new build, is that correct?surely the 17th Ed. has to be followed when ur changing anything.
 

Des 56

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I thought about the upside down socket route but you know what people are like.They'll take one look and say:what a f..ing idiot, he's put it upside down!The guy who said the min height of sockets only applies to new build, is that correct?surely the 17th Ed. has to be followed when ur changing anything.
Yes.we follow the regs,but in this example, the answers you were given likely refer to the "Building" regs
 

Richard Burns

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I thought about the upside down socket route but you know what people are like.They'll take one look and say:what a f..ing idiot, he's put it upside down!The guy who said the min height of sockets only applies to new build, is that correct?surely the 17th Ed. has to be followed when ur changing anything.
The minimum height of sockets/switches is a recommendation in Part M of the building Regulations covering use of buildings, it is not part of the wiring regulations. Part M states that the minimum height is not applicable to extensions or change of use of dwellings.
If you can raise the sockets within the space of the skirting board and fill/ board beneath them this may be a good thing but you do not need to go to 450mm.


too slow!
 

SPARTYKUS

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Doing a re-wire for a customer who doesn't want surface mini trunking, can't channel walls and wants me to use 50 year old conduit to re-wire.It was originally wired as a radial circuit and don't think I'd get 2x2.5 mm T & E's down the conduit.Assuming the kitchen can be done seperately, could I re-wire the rest of the sockets as a radial and put it on a 20 breaker? Another problem is existing sockets cut into skirting at floor level.Is it compusory to raise these to above 450mm or can I just mark it as a deviation?
No, but surely you'd remember that from your training!!! :wink5:
 
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Guest55

Why does this customer want a rewire anyway ??
Surely the whole point is to bring the installation upto current standards ??
re-using old imperial gauge conduit and sockets in skirting hardly achieves this.
The customer needs a reality check if you ask me.
 
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Guest55

Still got mine somewhere, and you can get metric / imperial adapters.
Yeah , but would you really bother with all that faff for a domestic install just because the customer wont accept that chasing need to be done ? not bloody likely lol.
 

richy3333

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Doing a re-wire for a customer who doesn't want surface mini trunking, can't channel walls and wants me to use 50 year old conduit to re-wire.It was originally wired as a radial circuit and don't think I'd get 2x2.5 mm T & E's down the conduit.Assuming the kitchen can be done seperately, could I re-wire the rest of the sockets as a radial and put it on a 20 breaker? Another problem is existing sockets cut into skirting at floor level.Is it compusory to raise these to above 450mm or can I just mark it as a deviation?
Do you have a copy of the Regs? If so what do they say? Are you Part P compliant - I guess you are as you advertise as an NICEIC Domestic Installer and an Approved contractor - so do the Building Regs apply in this situation?
 
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electrician4u

I dont see the point of some half-ased rewire that wont allow wall chases , ring mains , and reuses old socket positions in skirting ???
Its either done to current standards or walk , to be quite blunt.
can't chase the walls cos it's a listed building, minitrunking very difficult cos doors everywhere and conduit too tight for 2 T & E's .maybe could pull 6 2.5's but doubtful
 
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electrician4u

The minimum height of sockets/switches is a recommendation in Part M of the building Regulations covering use of buildings, it is not part of the wiring regulations. Part M states that the minimum height is not applicable to extensions or change of use of dwellings.
If you can raise the sockets within the space of the skirting board and fill/ board beneath them this may be a good thing but you do not need to go to 450mm.

Thanks for clarifying that.I've just found it in the OSG that it doesn't apply to re-wires.that should be in BOLD TYPE-it matters!
 
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electrician4u

Do you have a copy of the Regs? If so what do they say? Are you Part P compliant - I guess you are as you advertise as an NICEIC Domestic Installer and an Approved contractor - so do the Building Regs apply in this situation?
That's not me, bud.that website is someone else.yes i do have regs but to save me trawling through them, I thought, I know, I'll ask those pleasant chaps on electriansforum to save some time
 
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Swicade

I'd be tempted to try drilling a big hole (20mm masonary bit) down behind the skirting for cable run and mount sockets just above the skirting.....works well for upstairs circuits but only possible downstairs if there's wooden and not concrete flooring.
 
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