A question for domestic installers who are with Stroma......

[HappyHippyDad]

I am a domestic installer. I have done the domestic installers course only, so do not have level 3. I have been with Stroma for perhaps 7 years and as most of you know Napit are taking over the competent person scheme. This year I was given the choice of either staying with Stroma for one last year or moving over to Napit now, I choose to stay with Stroma as they were still cheaper.

My question is, have any domestic installers moved over to Napit (or indeed any other scheme) since September 2020? The reason for that date is that new requirements for joining a scheme came in to date then and they now require you to have level 3. Did any one have any problems with the switch?

I have checked the new ELECTROTECHNICAL ASSESSMENT SPECIFICATION FOR USE BY CERTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION BODIES (EAS) and on page 28 it does say the following:

"It is acceptable to permit new applications from an existing or previously recognised Qualified Supervisor, provided that they have been a Qualified Supervisor within two years of the application; and can provide a letter or similar evidence from the previous scheme provider confirming their Qualified Supervisor status and the scope of work previously assessed, which must be equal to the scope of work being applied for.
An applicant Qualified Supervisor will need to have at least 2 years’ evidence of responsibility for the technical standard of electrotechnical work and evidence of ongoing Continuous Professional Development."

Just wondering if anyone has any first hand knowledge of this or simply any more information about it all? I can't imagine I will be refused next year, but it is a slight concern

Cheers all..

 

[7029 dave]

I was only trying to compare to the OP's situation.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Is the NICEIC an accredited body that has an approved qualification for its members and therefore require them to submit their CPD to retain membership?

 

[Vortigern]

Napit do specify you must have 3 CPD points per year. It's quite plainly required. The good thing is if you sign up with say Schneider for instance or Aico etc. you can collect those points easily. As well Napit do on line seminars and give you a certificate for "attending" and you can get your points that way. They have recently done one on EICR, also some on AFDD and SPD which is good. It is helpful to hear other professionals discuss these things and expand your working knowledge.

 

[loz2754]

Is the NICEIC an accredited body that has an approved qualification for its members and therefore require them to submit their CPD to retain membership?

Good question. I need to go and reread their terms and conditions. The inspector on my last year's assessment visit mumbled something about it but said it's not yet a requirement, but that I should probably start keeping records just in case.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Agree, it's not difficult to get CPD points if you understand the process.

 

[Dave OCD]

I still say it's utter nonsense and more unnecessary red tape. If my work is all done to a high standard and in full compliance with BS7671,appropriate insurance is in place and with 100% happy and satisfied customers what right do they have to ask for more than that ? It's another example of more box ticking while general standards of workmanship continue to drop without it being addressed.

 

[cloverman]

CPD's are the in thing for most large organisations anyhow ! As already said it used for all types of working environments and employees have to prove that they have attended updates in their knowledge and skills requirements for the work they carry out.
Nothing new in my book, just another method of achieving what we all should be doing as standard

 

[UNG]

I was JIB graded about forty years ago. My boss got the card for me. I thought nothing of it and put it somewhere never to be seen again. Just did not realise the importance of it. Carried on wiring house shops offices and some factory work in London, Scotland and so on until the Part P thing which I again resisted for around fifteen years then finally caved in and joined Stroma. Went over to NAPIT last year and there was a snag with my qualifications I took a few years ago. 2397 QS course. However the guy/organisation sent me a level 3 cert and I did do a portfolio with it finally. Anyway after a bit of a kerfuffle they decided I could join anyway as I was with an existing scheme and accepted my TPC, EICR and commercial and domestic level from STROMA and afforded me the same competencies as I had already enjoyed. Strangely they did not want to see my commercial work as they were already satisfied with it. They insisted on visiting a crumby little domestic ring circuit I had done. All in all I would say the bar has been raised which is not a bad thing. Of course this only catches the conscientious among us and does nothing to address cowboys and ne'er do wells plying their con games on the gullible which is somewhat infuriating.

Have you ever registered yourself on Home | Electrotechnical Certification Scheme - https://www.ecscard.org.uk/ like you I had a JIB card 40 years ago, when I registered on the site I found they already knew quite a lot about me from my old JIB card

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you have not come across CPD in your working life then you have been working with you head in the sand, I have been retired for nigh on ten years and used to be on the CPD panel for my Institute and the CIC it's not new.

 

[Dave OCD]

I worked as an electrical inspector for the local Council for 24 years so I'm very familiar with this, it always seemed to me that some staff became so focussed on CPD and doing as many irrelevant courses as possible that they totally lost track of actually doing the jobs that they were paid to do.
Scam membership takes more than enough of my time and money already without another layer of waffle on top.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If waffle is your take on CPD then what hope is there for Electricians being taken seriously as professionals in the future, as a Mentor you should be embracing the requirements of the Institutes and Associations and guiding the young in the correct direction, not bucking their requirements, you can't change them so embrace them.

Shame this is not on the Arms as it is sending the wrong message to those outside.

 

[UNG]

If waffle is your take on CPD then what hope is there for Electricians being taken seriously as professionals in the future, as a Mentor you should be embracing the requirements of the Institutes and Associations and guiding the young in the correct direction, not bucking their requirements, you can't change them so embrace them.

Shame this is not on the Arms as it is sending the wrong message to those outside.

When so many training standards have been lowered what is the point of CPD other than to play catch up

 

[HappyHippyDad]

One of the reasons I changed career from a nurse to being an electrician, or rather a domestic installer, was due to all the CPD that came with being a nurse. I can absolutely say 95% of it was such irrelevant nonsense. The healthcare trust HAD to be seen to be offering it though as they use it in their statistics to show how well they train their staff. It was mandatory, we had to do it all, we had files upon files of different mandatory learning we had to complete. So, so, so many different bits of so called CPD and the vast majority was just absolute rubbish, with little or no bearing on the job. It was so demoralising to have to complete it when I just wanted to look after my patients.

Think about how silly we think completing the 18Ed is, perhaps every 3-4 years. We had to complete similar things perhaps every 2 weeks on average, and I am not exaggerating.

I think CPD could be such a good thing if it didn't get lost in all the bureaucracy and politics.

Being on this forum and discussing changes in regulations and basically all aspects of electrics is much more useful and rewarding than any CPD I have done.

 

[stevethesparks]

"sign up with say Schneider for instance or Aico etc. you can collect those points easily"

"Agree, it's not difficult to get CPD points if you understand the process"

Sounds like collecting Green Shield Stamps

 

[Mike Johnson]

Being on this forum and discussing changes in regulations and basically all aspects of electrics is much more useful and rewarding than any CPD I have done.

Exactly my earlier point that a professional body may assess being on this site and interacting with other electricians could contribute towards any CPD requirement needed to remain a member of said body.

However I do understand your frustration with what is the over bearing management in the health service which seems to be the way all hospitals are going, but most professional bodies are run by people who have been on the ground in the said profession and have not just left University with a degree in management with no idea whet the workforce have to contend with or do.

 

[Mike Johnson]

One of the reasons I changed career from a nurse to being an electrician, or rather a domestic installer, was due to all the CPD that came with being a nurse. I can absolutely say 95% of it was such irrelevant nonsense. The healthcare trust HAD to be seen to be offering it though as they use it in their statistics to show how well they train their staff.

More to do with the Healthcare trust rather than your professional body, Royal College of Nursing perhaps? The trust has to show how well they are abiding by the Government guide lines to continue getting their funding, it is a sad fact that the system is open to such abuse, there are failings in all systems of training and development but I think the NHST is an extreme example as I am sure there are others, but the real value of CPD as a vehicle to improve standards within any industry that has a large workforce that work autonomously can not be overlooked.

 

[teddyng]

One of the reasons I changed career from a nurse to being an electrician, or rather a domestic installer, was due to all the CPD that came with being a nurse. I can absolutely say 95% of it was such irrelevant nonsense. The healthcare trust HAD to be seen to be offering it though as they use it in their statistics to show how well they train their staff. It was mandatory, we had to do it all, we had files upon files of different mandatory learning we had to complete. So, so, so many different bits of so called CPD and the vast majority was just absolute rubbish, with little or no bearing on the job. It was so demoralising to have to complete it when I just wanted to look after my patients.

Think about how silly we think completing the 18Ed is, perhaps every 3-4 years. We had to complete similar things perhaps every 2 weeks on average, and I am not exaggerating.

I think CPD could be such a good thing if it didn't get lost in all the bureaucracy and politics.

Being on this forum and discussing changes in regulations and basically all aspects of electrics is much more useful and rewarding than any CPD I have done.

I do some ambulance work and yeah some of the mandatory learning is crap, can't begin to imagine how much worse it can be for an HCP.

Anyway, I only recently registered with NAPIT with a domestic installers course and 18th edition so I don't think you will have a problem.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I worked as an electrical inspector for the local Council for 24 years so I'm very familiar with this, it always seemed to me that some staff became so focussed on CPD and doing as many irrelevant courses as possible that they totally lost track of actually doing the jobs that they were paid to do.
Scam membership takes more than enough of my time and money already without another layer of waffle on t

More to do with the Healthcare trust rather than your professional body, Royal College of Nursing perhaps? The trust has to show how well they are abiding by the Government guide lines to continue getting their funding, it is a sad fact that the system is open to such abuse, there are failings in all systems of training and development but I think the NHST is an extreme example as I am sure there are others, but the real value of CPD as a vehicle to improve standards within any industry that has a large workforce that work autonomously can not be overlooked.

I wouldn't feel right naming the Trust Mike. No, it wasn't the Royal College of Nursing (RCN). The RCN is a nursing union that nurses can choose to join or not, they were very good.

 

[Dave OCD]

If waffle is your take on CPD then what hope is there for Electricians being taken seriously as professionals in the future, as a Mentor you should be embracing the requirements of the Institutes and Associations and guiding the young in the correct direction, not bucking their requirements, you can't change them so embrace them.

Shame this is not on the Arms as it is sending the wrong message to those outside.

Mike, if there's a risk of Electricians not being taken seriously as professionals in the future it'll be because of over pricing, shoddy workmanship and the 'that'll do' attitude ,this in turn creates distrust and much bodged and unsafe DIY electrical work which is a real concern to me.
I work very hard to undo this often found public perception. I've never,ever heard a customer say 'He did a lovely job at a very fair price but he didn't have many CPD points so we won't be using him again' . I stand by my opinion, much of it is irrelevant nonsense.

 

[Mike Johnson]

CPD is between you and your professional institute it should never come to the notice or scope of your clients, the miss conception of what CPD is and should achieve still remains, but I agree much of what has been said by others on here concerning CPD is irrelevant nonsense, at least I have an excuse for being a dinosaur. ?