Are we killing the apprenticeship route into the industry?

[montybaber]

It seems more and more guys and gals are enrolling at college and completing their electrical qualifications with no job placements and on the job experience, this is due to almost every sectr of industry falling apart around us and many people think getting a trade is the answer.

I have every respect for anyone in this position as I know the structured apprenticeships are few and far between but we need to remember that the 2330 etc were designed to run alongside an on site apprenticeship and NVQ's so that a balance of skill and knowledge were gained in that 4 yrs.

talk to any apprentice and they will tell you that they learnt a majority on site and the college work was the theory behind what they do day in day out at work, without the college theory an apprentice couldnt become an electrician and I honestly think you cant train an electrician up to the level to which he/she can go out alone and wire people houses factories etc with theory alone.

Trouble as I see it is that most employers would much rather take on an older person with enough drive and ambition to go ahead and complete part or all of the theory rather than an apprentice stright from school (why wouldnt they).

I can see no apprenticeships in the future and I think its a bad thing, it should'nt be up to individuals to complete college alone with no support or funding

What do others think n this?

 

[Damo666]

Very true, I have tried for the past two years to get an apprenticeship, and to no avail I have now had to pay top money to train and now I am nearly qualified m struggling to find any work, as while on paper I am ok have no real site experience. It should be the governments responsability to insure places for all apprentises in ALL trades

 

[montybaber]

I feel for guys in your position, you are the fresh blood that will drive this industry forward yet you have no support, many like yourself are forced to go it alone with little or no experience and its wrong! its not fair on you, its not fair on the contractors trying to compete and its sure not fair on the homeowners.

 

[Mac]

I know what you mean mate.I did my apprenticeship 25 years ago with a company that i know still exists.It has changed names so many times over the years.Big companies have either amalgamated or ceased trading.I blame government backing at the end of the day.They should bring back proper apprenticeships,all for that.Another government stealth tax to rob anyone trying to get into the industry,and these companies offering 12 week courses to train you as a spark should be got rid of IMO.

 

[Damo666]

Hi Mac, I know what are saying about the shorts courses but for us older guys we have little choice. Again back to the government we need more support.

 

[Mac]

Hi Mac, I know what are saying about the shorts courses but for us older guys we have little choice. Again back to the government we need more support.

When i finished my apprenticeship i decided i wanted to do other things.After 20 years decided i wanted to get back into sparking.What a nightmare.No help from anyone.Spent 5 years doing industrial/commercial in apprenticeship and then managed to get a job doing house bashing when i got back into the trade.Went back to college in Feb and passed my 17th.Stuck in a catch 22 situation now.No funding available for older guys.System is shot to pieces

 

[Guest123]

Hi all.

It's these "for profit" training centers that are ruining the industry IMO. Under an apprenticeship you are not allowed to progress further than level 2 without having an employer as the site experience is again IMO most important.

These chaps coming off the back of a training center course simply do not have the practical know how that experience brings to get on and be successful in the industry from the outset, through no fault of their own I may add. With no jobs available to them due to the state of the country at the mo what are they to do.....start their own business charging peanuts and spoil the trade even more.

You only have to look at some of the questions posted on here by "qualified sparks" to realise some of these courses dont teach a damn thing.

I really find it difficult to understand why people see getting into the electrical industry at this present time as a sure fire way of making a fortune as there is simply no work out there, these training centers are making it all up just to relieve you of your hard earned £5G

Now I'm not apologising for anything I've just said as I feel very strongly about this issue and genuinely believe that these "courses" are making a mockery of the industry and will ultimately be it's greatest downfall

There are no doubt exceptions to this but I have yet to see a good one.

Before anyone spouts off about me being stuck in my ways and past it and eliteist, I'm only 27 and yes I am a time served spark.

Regards

Lenny.

 

[montybaber]

I was hoping to avoid the fast track debate as it normally starts arguments although I agree with most of your post Lenny

Unfortunately I feel most for is the guys that are being ripped off 5k for courses that in no way gears them up for working in the industry, I think if I was laid off in another profession and I saw the advert on tv i'd be interested and why would'nt you believe these scammers.

I come from a different background to most on here so maybe im not in a position to comment too much but this country needs to clean up its act as the only people benefitting at the moment is colleges and these training centres, and they know it wont last forever so they are thinking short tern and reaping the benefits

 

[Mac]

Hi all.

It's these "for profit" training centers that are ruining the industry IMO. Under an apprenticeship you are not allowed to progress further than level 2 without having an employer as the site experience is again IMO most important.

These chaps coming off the back of a training center course simply do not have the practical know how that experience brings to get on and be successful in the industry from the outset, through no fault of their own I may add. With no jobs available to them due to the state of the country at the mo what are they to do.....start their own business charging peanuts and spoil the trade even more.

You only have to look at some of the questions posted on here by "qualified sparks" to realise some of these courses dont teach a damn thing.

I really find it difficult to understand why people see getting into the electrical industry at this present time as a sure fire way of making a fortune as there is simply no work out there, these training centers are making it all up just to relieve you of your hard earned £5G

Now I'm not apologising for anything I've just said as I feel very strongly about this issue and genuinely believe that these "courses" are making a mockery of the industry and will ultimately be it's greatest downfall

There are no doubt exceptions to this but I have yet to see a good one.

Before anyone spouts off about me being stuck in my ways and past it and eliteist, I'm only 27 and yes I am a time served spark.

Regards

Lenny.

Spot on mate

I was hoping to avoid the fast track debate as it normally starts arguments although I agree with most of your post Lenny

Unfortunately I feel most for is the guys that are being ripped off 5k for courses that in no way gears them up for working in the industry, I think if I was laid off in another profession and I saw the advert on tv i'd be interested and why would'nt you believe these scammers.

I come from a different background to most on here so maybe im not in a position to comment too much but this country needs to clean up its act as the only people benefitting at the moment is colleges and these training centres, and they know it wont last forever so they are thinking short tern and reaping the benefits

Too true mate,these companies find a gap in the market and try to exploit you and me to part with £1000's.They don't care what happens when you have passed your courses,and at the end of these courses you can only do domestic work if you can get started up

 

[Guest123]

I totally agree, I'm not looking for an argument with anyone, it's not my way. But people must understand that the time served guy has spent a minimum of 4 years gaining his qulifications and experience to be classed as a Qualified Electrician, and for some training centre to claim they can do the same in 12 weeks usually without the main 2360, 2330 course is simply an insult.

You've hit the nail on the head there Monty, as regards the training centres making hay while the sun shines, my question is why isn't the OPDM or DWP doing something about it.

 

[Mac]

I totally agree, I'm not looking for an argument with anyone, it's not my way. But people must understand that the time served guy has spent a minimum of 4 years gaining his qulifications and experience to be classed as a Qualified Electrician, and for some training centre to claim they can do the same in 12 weeks usually without the main 2360, 2330 course is simply an insult.

You've hit the nail on the head there Monty, as regards the training centres making hay while the sun shines, my question is why isn't the OPDM or DWP doing something about it.

Another money making scheme.They keep advertising there is a shortage of tradesmen in the industry(37,000) sparks needed by 2010.I was a time served apprentice but can't get any help to get back into the trade.All these college courses are aimed at younger people.No help for the older guy.I was told by the jobcentre to apply for a loan.

 

[Guest123]

No help for the older guy.I was told by the jobcentre to apply for a loan.

What sort of advice is that......getting into debt before you've even started.

To hell with it, I'm emmigrating.

 

[boatnik1]

Hi all.



I really find it difficult to understand why people see getting into the electrical industry at this present time as a sure fire way of making a fortune as there is simply no work out there, these training centers are making it all up just to relieve you of your hard earned £5G


Regards

Lenny.

Is there the possibility that some of the sites sponsors might be responsible for misleading some folks.

I'm sure I couldn't possibly comment.

e.g. No experience required. retrain as a spark, earn £50,747.00 or even a more modest £30k

 

[Guest123]

e.g. No experience required. retrain as a spark, earn £50,747.00

And thats the winner.


Come train with us and you'll be in the times rich list before you know it.

 

[Spudnik]

Chaps,

It is the site sponsors that help keep the forum going.

If it wasnt for them you wouldnt have anywhere to go, to be a part of a great community.

 

[Dave]

Is there the possibility that some of the sites sponsors might be responsible for misleading some folks.

I'm sure I couldn't possibly comment.

e.g. No experience required. retrain as a spark, earn £50,747.00 or even a more modest £30k

Where does it say on thier sites that you can earn that..?

 

[johnnyb]

Absolutely agree, these 12 week courses are a scam, what happened to the old ways the company sent you to college and got you through.
Unfortunataly companies are reluctant to take anybody on as the bloomin country is at a stand still, and thats the Goverments fault, for not giving insetives or not big enough incentives to make it worth while for both the employer and employee, STALEMATE boys, what we goin to do about it?

 

[guitargraham]

Hi all, feel i have to throw my hat into the ring?

i am 47 have been in the retail motor industry for the last 22 years, made redundant twice last year and decided to enroll with access2trade. i dont expect to be a full blown spark at the end, but i will have greater knowledge to help me progress. i spend all my my time at home and at work reading this forum and looking at the links to help with knowledge.

i am a pretty good guy with tools,now in my third house and do all my own DIY so feel pretty confident with doing things, but the main thing that has changed over the years is this thing called " INTERWEB" studying is so much easier but you cant beat old fashioned doing the job, so please remeber all of us who throw money at this dont think we will be up there with you guys but on the bottom rung of the ladder.

When i did my first weeks training course there were 13 of us and noboby thought they would walk strasight into the trade, 5 of us like me wanted a change of career but knew we would have to other things, one was a failed spark who wanted to get back on track, the rst thought it would help them in there current job or get them in with a company.

sorry about the waffle and great repect i love the site, it helps me no end understand things

Graham

 

[Spudnik]

I think another problem is the fact that many people are hoping for a job at the end of their training, wherever they trained.

And thats just it. There arent any.

It does shock me that so many people are spending a lot of money on training knowing full well the state of the industry in general.

I for one, would not even contemplate getting into the building industry whilst we are in this current situation.

Professional suicide.

 

[saveloy]

I think another problem is the fact that many people are hoping for a job at the end of their training, wherever they trained.

And thats just it. There arent any.

It does shock me that so many people are spending a lot of money on training knowing full well the state of the industry in general.

I for one, would not even contemplate getting into the building industry whilst we are in this current situation.

Professional suicide.

I am afraid I agree with that. It's also the same with plumbing. Mate of mine works at a plumbing/ electrical firm. He helps run the office. He says that at the moment they get a huge amount of calls (sometimes 20 a day!!!!) from people who have been on courses and are looking for a start. Unfortunatley their workload is declining apart from that they only use experienced engineers. The whole industry is going down the pan.

On a personal note I put myself through college 3 years ago so that I could add electrical work to my core business (domestic building). I totally agree that there is a distinct lack of decent apprenticeships around and given my time again I would have trained as an electrician from school. I do know my limitations and stick to them. I do feel though, that if you are dedicated enough, and don't get over confident about your knowledge and abilities then you can make it. However there is no sustitution for a proper apprenticeship.