Board Change Questions

[akwoody2]

So im looking to get certified with Stroma, signed up and my first job that I can use for the assessment is a board change.

The only issue is it doesn't have bonding to the main water. Can I change the board and put the fact there is no bonding down under as an advisory?

Thanks for your help in advanced

 

[gutterball]

Can you not bond the water?

 

[Octopus]

So im looking to get certified with Stroma, signed up and my first job that I can use for the assessment is a board change.

The only issue is it doesn't have bonding to the main water. Can I change the board and put the fact there is no bonding down under as an advisory?

Thanks for your help in advanced

No. Bonding needs to be included as part of the CU change.

I wouldn't recommend your approach unless you want to fail your assessment.

 

[richy3333]

Lack of bonding is a C2 on an EICR/PIR. Do you really think that it is acceptable to leave it (regardless if it's for your scam membership or not ( unless you're a sparky near me that charged 2 days for an 8 way board change and left the bonding)!

 

[Engineer54]

So im looking to get certified with Stroma, signed up and my first job that I can use for the assessment is a board change.

The only issue is it doesn't have bonding to the main water. Can I change the board and put the fact there is no bonding down under as an advisory?

Thanks for your help in advanced

Hmmm, And exactly what electrical qualifications do you hold??

 

[Pete999]

Bonding to the Gas, water etc is part and partial of a board change, if it's already in place, and continuity tests OK 0.05ohms is the limit, correct size cable used 10mm, I did read a recommendation somewhere that if the run to each of the items that require bonding is over 25mtr then you must increase the size of main bonding conductor. In answer to your question. no you cant leave an advisory.

 

[telectrix]

sorry, pete. that 0.05 ohms is the max. you should get between the bonding conductor and the pipe it's connected to, not the resistance of the conductor itself.

 

[Pete999]

main bonding tests - YouTube
Tel take a look at this

 

[akwoody2]

Hmmm, And exactly what electrical qualifications do you hold??

2330 Level 3
NVQ L3
AM2
2394
2395
17th Edition

Any more questions before you answer my simple question?


Only asking because one of the lads at work says its what he does, it will be a nightmare to get a cable through to the other side of the house.

Thanks for all the decent/non-derogative reply's so far!

 

[Silly Sausage]

Have a read of 132.16 and the last part of 131.2.2

 

[telectrix]

i disagree. if you can quote the reg. that proves me wrong, i'll eat the pie.

 

[akwoody2]

Can you not bond the water?

It will be a nightmare as its at the other end of the house. It will be a difficult job to make it look tidy.

It would also mean taking up the flooring in all rooms upstairs.

 

[Octopus]

It will be a nightmare as its at the other end of the house. It will be a difficult job to make it look tidy.

It would also mean taking up the flooring in all rooms upstairs.

Do a search or 2 on here. Remember the location of the bond needs to be within 600mm of entry to the premises "where practical".

I would question your "mates" about their claims - because I can't imagine they are compliant on their installs, regs nor certs.

 

[trev]

No, you cannot omit the bonding.

 

[Andy78]

It will be a nightmare as its at the other end of the house. It will be a difficult job to make it look tidy.

It would also mean taking up the flooring in all rooms upstairs.

Can you not run the cable on the exterior of the building ?

 

[dingledong]

Unfortunately if it's got to be done it's got to be done , I had one about month ago right to the other side ofthe house but it had to be done

 

[uksparks]

2330 Level 3
NVQ L3
AM2
2394
2395
17th Edition

Any more questions before you answer my simple question?


Only asking because one of the lads at work says its what he does, it will be a nightmare to get a cable through to the other side of the house.

Thanks for all the decent/non-derogative reply's so far!

Sorry but you should know better as you seem adequately qualified so to speak, I'm not trying to sound rude but how can you possibly not know this? I'm disgusted that you would even consider leaving it off.

If your mate leaves it off then he is a fool and going the extra mile to wrecking this industry!

 

[akwoody2]

Do a search or 2 on here. Remember the location of the bond needs to be within 600mm of entry to the premises "where practical".

I would question your "mates" about their claims - because I can't imagine they are compliant on their installs, regs nor certs.

Unfortunately it goes from the outside path under the house to under the sink.

His reason is because hes not adding or altering the existing install He's changing the board to make it safer.

 

[telectrix]

so by the same reasoning, he's fit a new c/h boiler but leave the gas leak on the gas fire leaking?

 

[uksparks]

Unfortunately it goes from the outside path under the house to under the sink.

His reason is because hes not adding or altering the existing install He's changing the board to make it safer.

There is always a way to do it, it's pure laziness in my opinion. Making bit safer yes, but with no regard to the regs. If he can't be asked to do do a simple task like bond the water, I dread to think how good the board change is...

 

[trev]

Your mate is a cowboy

 

[akwoody2]

Sorry but you should know better as you seem adequately qualified so to speak, I'm not trying to sound rude but how can you possibly not know this? I'm disgusted that you would even consider leaving it off.

If your mate leaves it off then he is a fool and going the extra mile to wrecking this industry!

Experience means a lot more than qualifications. Some things I have little experience with, this bonding issue Is one. Yes you did seem rude.

Everyone starts from somewhere, im sure when you were starting up you had "silly" questions that needed to be answered. This is a forum where questions get asked.

Get of you high horse and do what your on here to be doing and that's answering questions to a decent manor and with the relative information to help the person asking the question.

In turn this will educate them and help with their experience


Thanks

 

[Scornio]

Why not test it first to see if it requires bonding?

 

[Andy78]

Unfortunately it goes from the outside path under the house to under the sink.

His reason is because hes not adding or altering the existing install He's changing the board to make it safer.

If "your mate" thinks that changing a consumer unit is not an alteration to the existing system, and in doing so thinks he can ignore the basic safety principles of the regs, then you would do well to avoid this cowboy for any sort of guidance in the future.

 

[uksparks]

My point was that you have undergone a form of recognised training which means you should hopefully know this information, yes we all have to start somewhere, but you have some good qualifications which leads me to think you should have known better.

 

[uksparks]

Get of you high horse

Your mate is a cowboy

Nicely put Trev, apparently I have a horse too, I must also be a cowboy.

 

[akwoody2]

My point was that you have undergone a form of recognised training which means you should hopefully know this information, yes we all have to start somewhere, but you have some good qualifications which leads me to think you should have known better.

So your still not helping....

 

[trev]

Nicely put Trev, apparently I have a horse too, I must also be a cowboy.

You could be a huntsman or a jockey, a pikey, glue manufacturer, pet food maker. All sorts of things mate

 

[telectrix]

yes he is. he's given the answer along with several other posters, albeit with a mild slating. you'd get worse in a site canteen.

 

[trev]

So your still not helping....

I also think he's helping, if you did this on one of my jobs you'd get a lot worse than a mild slating mate.

 

[telectrix]

You could be a huntsman or a jockey, a pikey, glue manufacturer, pet food maker. All sorts of things mate

or even a french reatauranteur, or a tesco's buyer.

 

[Andy78]

yes he is. he's given the answer along with several other posters, albeit with a mild slating. you'd get worse in a site canteen.

And nowt compared to the slating from a scheme inspector when he casually informs them "Oh I didn't put the bonding in because it was going to be a right nightmare and my mate says I don't have to bother"

 

[akwoody2]

I also think he's helping, if you did this on one of my jobs you'd get a lot worse than a mild slating mate.

Im all game for a laugh on site but surly people are on this website are here to be productive and help people? Not wait for an opportunity to jump and being a tool.

 

[Scornio]

Akwpody,
Usually I would defend persons like yourself getting slated, but this time I can't.

If your starting out, you should be doing some extra studying each night before each job if it is your first. Then it becomes easier.

As basic knowledge when even working for somebody, at the very least you would install a 10mm earth wire. First though, I would be testing the board with a few simple tests before even starting, at the same time you could investigate further whether or not that incomer is extraneous or not.

 

[HandySparks]

Is the incoming water main metal or plastic?

 

[akwoody2]

Is the incoming water main metal or plastic?

Plastic into the tap and copper throughout

 

[trev]

Im all game for a laugh on site but surly people are on this website are here to be productive and help people? Not wait for an opportunity to jump and being a tool.

I've always likened this place to a site cabin mate. What usually happens in one of those places if you ask a question like this? Once you've had your rollocking you'll get the mick taken mercilessly for the rest of the week or until the next daft question is asked.

 

[Scornio]

What is testing coming out as?

 

[telectrix]

you bond it as near as possible to the point of entry. if that's 20ft. away , but the copper pipe is continuous, then it's a damn site better than no bonding at all.

 

[trev]

Plastic into the tap and copper throughout

Then you'll need to test it to make sure it is an extraneous conductive part.

 

[HandySparks]

Plastic into the tap and copper throughout

If it's plastic into the water stop tap, it's almost certainly not extraneous at that point and therefore won't need bonding at that location. However proving it by testing may be difficult if it's connected to earth by another service, such as a metallic gas pipe.

 

[akwoody2]

Akwpody,
Usually I would defend persons like yourself getting slated, but this time I can't.

If your starting out, you should be doing some extra studying each night before each job if it is your first. Then it becomes easier.

As basic knowledge when even working for somebody, at the very least you would install a 10mm earth wire. First though, I would be testing the board with a few simple tests before even starting, at the same time you could investigate further whether or not that incomer is extraneous or not.

I agree with you, I did look into it and came to a conclusion it has to be done.

I then spoke to someone and they had a different view, hence whey I got on here to get further views

 

[davesparks]

Ask yourself the question 'why do we install bonding' and then the answer to your question about whether you need to do it or not should become clear

 

[Scornio]

Ok, you answered your own question, came on here to ask others and they have all given those answers required along with a bit of stick for asking a daft question. So to sum up....test it, find out if extraneous or not. If you don't want to or it does require it, then you must put that earth in where practicable. If the copper is unbroken from incomer to where you feel is practicable then stick it on there at the very least and make a note on certificate.

 

[Knobhead]

I could go in to the resistivity of copper pipe against that of copper wire and the positioning of the bonding point.
But I won’t, it was a waste of my time then and it will be a waste of my time now. Maths and physics is just too much for most on this forum. All I got was “it’s in the regulations” with no reasoned argument.
Tel was about the only one that got my point.

 

[telectrix]

still remember it. point is that it could be classed as a departure from regs. i.e. not making the installation less safe than if the letter of the regs. had been complied with.

 

[Richard Burns]

still remember it. point is that it could be classed as a departure from regs. i.e. not making the installation less safe than if the letter of the regs. had been complied with.

It could be said to be safer than BS7671 as the touch voltage should be (a bit) lower with the lower resistance path of the copper pipe.
Admittedly, if you were paranoid, the risk of inadvertent disconnection would be increased, (but really it would not be inadvertent it would be deliberate and uncaring disconnection)

 

[telectrix]

i reckon the point of the "as close as practical to the point of entry ( within 2ft.)", is to ensure that all the pipework in the property is bonded. bonding further along the pipe is no detriment unless plastic is introduced. in that case a reappraisal of the bonding should be carried out, but who wants to allow a wet willie to handle anything more technical than a monkey wrench.

 

[davesparks]

I don't know how the resistivity of copper pipe compares to that of copper cable, I would assume that cable would be a higher grade of copper to pipe though so pipe would have a higher resistivity.
But from memory I think the actual cross sectional area of the copper in a 15mm pipe is over 40sqmm.

So I would have thought keeping the bonding short and connecting it as close to the head as possible would be technically better.

The reason for connecting at point if entry is more to do with the practical considerations of not losing the bonding connection when the pipework is altered

 

[Guest77]

So im looking to get certified with Stroma, signed up and my first job that I can use for the assessment is a board change.

The only issue is it doesn't have bonding to the main water. Can I change the board and put the fact there is no bonding down under as an advisory?

Thanks for your help in advanced

Can I change the board and put the fact there is no bonding down under as an advisory