capping

[Plonker 3]

Large piece of unearthed capping in the wall....lady puts picture up.....nail through capping and through live core only...full length of capping is live and no trip.......thats bad.

You not heard of safe zones?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Don't forget to run a fly lead from your capping to the metal window frame.

 

[Plonker 3]

I just think its good practice.

I think its ok to drive my vehicle after 5 pints, doesn't make it right does it?

 

[DPG]

At the risk of being facetious, I'd say don't earth your capping, then get your rewires done even quicker. You do take a while. Daz

 

[telectrix]

You not heard of safe zones?

we have, but silly moo nailing up a picture usually has no idea. she thinks the electricity gets to the socket by magic.

 

[Plonker 3]

How far do we go to make things safe from silly moo though?

Surface everything in the next update anyone? lol

 

[Guest569]

I was taught to always earth capping..old company still does it. Safe zones yeah but what if you install and a sharp edge of caping has sliced into a cable by accident ? you have just installed a large piece of metal in the wall that is now live...I earth it then I know I don't have that problem as any contact to live will also be to earth and trip.

I think it was councils who insisted on this even when not required..but Ive always just thought it was good practise too ! Id rather do that than potentially make a wall live, not know till someone soaks it with paint and gets plated.

 

[Guest569]

How are your cables supported then if they're not clipped?

The roll of tape every foot, gentle pressure of the capping , bonding coat and finish coat usually support them well enough ...

 

[telectrix]

i use plastic oval tube. hate capping. either the nails won't go in or they fall out as soon as you let go.

 

[Guest569]

who's next ?

 

[Plonker 3]

Pint of stella please then barman

 

[Guest569]

i use plastic oval tube. hate capping. either the nails won't go in or they fall out as soon as you let go.

Don't use the nails they are useless, get a small decent battery gun with a decent magnetic screw bit that holds the screws steady. Screw straight onto the capping and the screw will pierce through, straight into a raw plug. Careful not to screw through cables...

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Pint of stella please then barman

........

 

[DPG]

who's next ?

Oh dear.

 

[Guest569]

I think the folk installing capping only should consider earthing it.

 

[telectrix]

Don't use the nails they are useless, get a small decent battery gun with a decent magnetic screw bit that holds the screws steady. Screw straight onto the capping and the screw will pierce through, straight into a raw plug. Careful not to screw through cables...

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........

if i'm going to the trouble of drilling and plugging, then it's tube all the way. 1 hole per clip. and it's rewireable as well.

 

[ipf]

I think the folk installing capping only should consider earthing it.

Might as well earth the plastic capping.

 

[Guest569]

Might as well earth the plastic capping.

thats just silly.

 

[telectrix]

it's about time this thread got silly, anyway. it should have been trashed ages ago. time for beer.

 

[ipf]

With all the silly stuff I'm reading here, it goes well.

 

[Guest55]

it should have been trashed ages ago.

your wish is my command.




this whole thread is just one jolly funny reminder why i use this site less and less.

good work fellow forum contributers on making yourselves look dumb ;-D

 

[D Skelton]

good work fellow forum contributers on making yourselves look dumb ;-D

How so?

I don't believe any comment I made was dumb?

 

[telectrix]

time of the month, biff?

 

[Guest55]

How so?

I don't believe any comment I made was dumb?

were you singled out in any way ?
no , so stop being so f****** uptight.
folk might think youre actually that ---- tank driver you proudly display.

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time of the month, biff?

always ;-)

 

[ipf]

were you singled out in any way ?
no , so stop being so f****** uptight.
folk might think youre actually that ---- tank driver you proudly display.

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always ;-)

Banana lama ??

 

[D Skelton]

were you singled out in any way ?
no , so stop being so f****** uptight.
folk might think youre actually that ---- tank driver you proudly display.

Whoa! Calm down dear, no need for such a wobbly now is there?! I'll put those toys back in your pram now shall I?

I never said you singled me out, you just referred to contributing members of this thread being dumb, me being one of them. I wanted clarification on what I said that was so dumb, that's all?! Uptight? I don't really think so, just inquisitive as to why you would say such a thing.

One more thing, there's a line you simply don't cross. When you start making insinuations with words like '----' you're getting very close pal. Wind it in!

 

[iamelectric]

I was taught to always earth capping..old company still does it. Safe zones yeah but what if you install and a sharp edge of caping has sliced into a cable by accident ? you have just installed a large piece of metal in the wall that is now live...I earth it then I know I don't have that problem as any contact to live will also be to earth and trip.

I think it was councils who insisted on this even when not required..but Ive always just thought it was good practise too ! Id rather do that than potentially make a wall live, not know till someone soaks it with paint and gets plated.

never seen u earthing ur capping on that youtube vid

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Lets all take a deep breath and....... relax

Now.. Biff, say you're sorry and shake hands, you'll only regret it in the morning when you're sober!

 

[atm84]

Perhaps if you used the correct size capping for the number of cables installed and took your time instead if being a rough a*/'e then there should not be any concern about nicking a cable.

Also two lengths of capping is not a substitute for metallic earthed conduit. If it was deemed acceptable it would state in the regs earthed metallic conduit or similar but it doesn't.

 

[telectrix]

yep. reg. says "enclosed in earthed concuit or trunking". capping does not constitute being enclosed.

 

[atm84]

You also have the issue from penetration from the other side of the wall. Capping doesn't protect from that does it?

 

[telectrix]

yes, but then cables > 50mm deep would be at risk and they don't require any protection. you get builders and wood butchers around, anything can happen, but how far do you go?

 

[atm84]

Yeah sorry I was thinking about zones.
'A zone formed on one side of a partition wall of 100mm or less thickness extends to the reverse side only if the location of the accessory can be determined from the reverse side'

 

[D Skelton]

Also two lengths of capping is not a substitute for metallic earthed conduit. If it was deemed acceptable it would state in the regs earthed metallic conduit or similar but it doesn't.

Think about it for a minute now would ya. What purpose does an earthed metallic sheath serve in a cable? Why would an earthed metallic length of capping be any different to this? We all know it isn't mentioned in the regs, but we're talking theoretically here right.

 

[telectrix]

it would serve the purpose, agreed. a nail penetrating the capping and the L conductor would operate the OCPD.

 

[D Skelton]

So would it be fair to say that if it isn't listed as a method of providing penetration protection the same as an earthed metallic sheath, but, it is as safe as, then it could be listed as a departure from BS7671?

 

[atm84]

Think about it for a minute now would ya. What purpose does an earthed metallic sheath serve in a cable? Why would an earthed metallic length of capping be any different to this? We all know it isn't mentioned in the regs, but we're talking theoretically here right.

Because capping does not fully enclose the cable nor is it in direct contact with the cpc

 

[telectrix]

fair in my book. as you say, it's no less safe than if it was done as per BS7671.

 

[atm84]

Think about it for a minute now would ya. What purpose does an earthed metallic sheath serve in a cable? Why would an earthed metallic length of capping be any different to this? We all know it isn't mentioned in the regs, but we're talking theoretically here right.

You are relying on an the capping being suitably earthed and without this connection being accessible for verification I would not deem it as acceptable. I could probably ask someone to give me a number of reasonably qualified reasons why earthing a piece of capping does not constitute as suitable protection but i have others things to do.

 

[D Skelton]

Because capping does not fully enclose the cable nor is it in direct contact with the cpc

Unless the wall is so thin that the distance between the cable and the other side of the wall is less than 50mm then the cable doesn't need to be enclosed. Also, if the capping is earthed then of course it is in direct contact with the cpc.

 

[atm84]

So would it be fair to say that if it isn't listed as a method of providing penetration protection the same as an earthed metallic sheath, but, it is as safe as, then it could be listed as a departure from BS7671?

You aren't making any sense.

 

[atm84]

Unless the wall is so thin that the distance between the cable and the other side of the wall is less than 50mm then the cable doesn't need to be enclosed. Also, if the capping is earthed then of course it is in direct contact with the cpc.

No it is not in direct physical contact with the cpc of a cable. It is connected by a flying lead. I'm out.

 

[Plonker 3]

nor is it in direct contact with the cpc

Good point, what if 2 or 3 different circuiits are behind one section of capping? Only one circuit providing the CPC to the capping. Then that circuit gets disconnected from the DB at a later date?

 

[atm84]

Look feel free to do it your way but its not a suiable method as per BS7671 whether you feel it works in theory or not.

If i was inspecting the work on one of my jobs I would get you to do it as per BS 7671 regardless of whether you think its acceptable in theory or not.

Tell you what, how about raising it when it comes round to your scheme assessment. See what they say then.

 

[D Skelton]

No it is not in direct physical contact with the cpc of a cable. It is connected by a flying lead. I'm out.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant by direct contact, with the addition of the word 'physical' it now makes sense to me. Still, if the connection made was MF such as a rivveted or soldered connection then I can't see a problem, there's no need for a MF connection to be accessible for verification.

 

[telectrix]

Good point, what if 2 or 3 different circuiits are behind one section of capping? Only one circuit providing the CPC to the capping. Then that circuit gets disconnected from the DB at a later date?

a valid point. go to the top of the class.

 

[atm84]

a valid point. go to the top of the class.

Agree. A very good point.

 

[D Skelton]

Look feel free to do it your way but its not a suiable method as per BS7671 whether you feel it works in theory or not.

I think you need to have a read up on exactly what a departure from BS7671 is mate.

If i was inspecting the work on one of my jobs I would get you to do it as per BS 7671 regardless of whether you think its acceptable in theory or not.

How you choose to work on your jobs is not really relevant to the discussion as this is entirely personal preference.

I am not necessarily saying that I would do it this way, but if I found work to be done this way ie. A cable has been protected within a wall throughout its whole length by metallic capping earthed by way of a maintenance free connection, the distance between the cable and the other side of the wall is greater than 50mm and the metallic capping is suitably sized in accordance with the requirements of section 543, then I would be more than comfortable to list it in the departures section of the certificate.

Tell you what, how about raising it when it comes round to your scheme assessment. See what they say then.

I'd be happy to, except when my renewal date comes in March I won't be renewing so won't have a chance

 

[D Skelton]

Good point, what if 2 or 3 different circuiits are behind one section of capping? Only one circuit providing the CPC to the capping. Then that circuit gets disconnected from the DB at a later date?

The same could be said of metallic conduit or trunking. You would have to ensure if this was the case that the capping was earthed to a common point.

 

[7029 dave]

Plastic capping or oval tube for me,anyway how many new builds have internal walls not many, its all stud and timber framed up in 5mins. lol

 

[D Skelton]

Don't think I've ever used either.