Discuss Clarification on Part P in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

H

harrison2987

I am a fully qualified time served electrician but keep getting asked by customers if I am 'Part P'. Am I right in saying Part P is simply for builders/wannabe electricians, who wish to install electrics legitimately by taking a short course? I have never been clear on the purpose of Part P so if anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful :)
 
Part P is a section of the building regs concerning domestic electrics. All installations must comply with it, and some jobs legally have to be notified to building control. You, as a spark, can't 'have' Part P. But you must comply with it. The main hurdle is the notification part. It's very expensive to go directly through your local building control, hence these Part P competent persons schemes exist, so you pay a flat fee for yearly membership and that allows you to notify jobs through them for only a few quid each time.
 
Part P covers which work in domestic situations is notifiable to building control, go to the planning portal and download the approved document. Self certification schemes exist that allow you to notify through these without paying LABC's exorbitant fees. Take a look at NAPIT, Elecsa, NICEIC, Stroma, BSI for details of how to join their schemes.
 
part p means that to do notifiable work, LABC need to be notified. this can be done by notifying them b4 you start and paying them a ransom for each job, or joining a scam and paying an annual ransom.
 
No, any work carried out on a domestic property that involves additions to circuits, new circuits, bathroom or kitchen work has to be notified to building control, the easiest way to do this is to join a part p scheme who do the notifying for you once you have submitted them with the cert for the job.

So therfore if you carry out any of the above then you need to register with Elecsa, Napit, NIC or any of the orher providers.
 
in simple terms, you have to pay fat cats in order to be able to work legally. only applies to ethnic brits in england and wales. scotland and ireland have more sense, and the eastern europeans don't give a ----.
 
Are you telling me that you are doing electrical installation in domestic properties and you are not part p qualified
Whatever next ?

Even JIB qualified gold card holders can't do domestics unless they can pass their part p


Us part p painters had to pay a lot of money to be part p and it seems to be unfair that electricians think they can just get on with doing electrical installation without taking the 3 day course and being part p qualified

Ahem,amateurs playing with dangerous electrics without their part p qualification is pretty poor form I would say
 
Thanks guys, so basically even though I have a 2391 and am classed as a competent person to sign off work on that basis, for it to be legal I must register with a scheme like mentioned above??! And in doing so I then become Part P compliant?? Without the backing of a scheme will any work I do be legitimate?
 
it will be against part p of the building regs. and that is statutory. if you do notifiable work, produce a certificate, you'll only get hung, drawn and quatered if something goes wrong.
 
I have dealt with building control before either myself or through builders and asked the question whether they wanted a scheme registered electrician. Some said yes and I didn't undertake the work, but some said as long as I sent them a copy of my 2391 that would be fine. Can anyone explain why that might be after some of the above points.
 
sarcastic??? after doing a 3 year apperenticeship in interior design? first year was washing paint brushes, 2nd year on stirring paint. in final year managed to actually apply some paint to a wall in a carefully controlled laboratory rig, with HSE on standby with the fire brigade just in case he mixed oil paint with water based paint. additional year to get part pee in hanging wallpaper with the shiny side out. phew, too technical for me. think i'll be a plumber. all you have to do is turn up on a site where nothing is wrong and cause a flood of biblical proportions.
 
You paint a scary picture tel
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Building Control interpretation and application of Part P can vary from council to council. Some are pretty lax, others are red-hot. Easiest way, if you plan to do lots of notifiable work, is to go with one of the schemes and cut them out completely. Until things change for the better, we're stuck with this farsicle situation where a time served fully qualified spark is outranked on paper by a kitchen fitter or carpet fitter who's done a 3 day course.

But I'm not bitter.
 
I am a fully qualified time served electrician but keep getting asked by customers if I am 'Part P'. Am I right in saying Part P is simply for builders/wannabe electricians, who wish to install electrics legitimately by taking a short course? I have never been clear on the purpose of Part P so if anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful :)

Others have explained what it is all about, but you need to download 'Approved Document P' and read through it. This explains what you need to do and how you can comply and so on with Part P.

Enjoy! bedtime reading! not.

Cheers.............Howard.
 
I can not see how painters live day to day painting white walls all the time, it must be like xmas when there is some colour
It's beyond me how it takes a long apprenticeship, especially when someone can be out wiring houses with only the 17th under their belt.
 
yea I know what you mean I know someone who has A levels in art and design but just paint to lol, have to say the company I work for are starting to get more work fixing low standard electrical work round are area
 
There is soooo much confusion on this topic. Personally, I think this scheme is good, it just did not go far enough. Anything to regulate the industry is a good idea to keep the cowboys out. Unfortunately, it has driven the midnight cowboy and "weekend electrician" underground. Everyone in the industry complains and says "do a three day course and become registered to wire a house" I didn't hear much complaining before 2005 when painters, bakers, candlestick makers and basket weavers were attempting DIY electrics.

Part P is electrical safety. When doing domestics, you also confirm Part B - Fire Safety, Part L - Energy Conservation etc. Look at commercial specs and plans and believe it or not, you will see Part A, Part B, P and so on. The only difference is.....DIY Joe public will "have a go" - It must be ok it worked first time and didn't blow a fuse.

Notifying work is a solution but its not being policed
 
Mainman, one of the major bugbears about Part P is that it is not fit for purpose. It was intended to regulate the trade and drive up standards but has failed on both counts, when sub standard electrical work is discovered and reported nothing is done by anyone and so it is proven that it has done nothing to counter the actions of the cowboy.
Furthermore, it is utterly ridiculous that someone who has only the 17th qualification is deemed competent to work in someone's house but a time served electrician is not solely because one has paid to join a scam and the other has not.
Yes, Joe Public has always had a go. Yes, there are more building regs that we have to comply with than part p but the situation as it stands is a farce no matter which way you dress it up
 
I totally agree with you Trevor. It has just not gone far enough and is not being policed. Sorry....I stand corrected, the registered person is supposed to police it and bubble the non compliances.

Now I hear they are relaxing the rules in England (e.g kitchens) "to reduce the administrative burden on LABC's"
 
There is soooo much confusion on this topic. Personally, I think this scheme is good, it just did not go far enough. Anything to regulate the industry is a good idea to keep the cowboys out. Unfortunately, it has driven the midnight cowboy and "weekend electrician" underground. Everyone in the industry complains and says "do a three day course and become registered to wire a house" I didn't hear much complaining before 2005 when painters, bakers, candlestick makers and basket weavers were attempting DIY electrics.

Part P is electrical safety. When doing domestics, you also confirm Part B - Fire Safety, Part L - Energy Conservation etc. Look at commercial specs and plans and believe it or not, you will see Part A, Part B, P and so on. The only difference is.....DIY Joe public will "have a go" - It must be ok it worked first time and didn't blow a fuse.

Notifying work is a solution but its not being policed

I always hope,but with little chance of respite, that posts such as this will dry up now the part p thing is to be chopped in all bar name (in England that is)we in Wales must suffer it yet more before our burden is also lifted

The two points I have underlined in your post are of such differing opinion to my own that chalk and cheese would be a better likeness

The first point I will answer very abrubptly
It is not good at all,it never was good at the outset, and its not good all these years later

The second point
Part P. far from keeping the cowboys out and improving standards,it has been such a calamatous mess that it has had the complete and opposite effect to your quote

In the rush for pound coins,the schemes who were permitted to administer the shambles, have been in a stampede to accumulate numbers,the entry criteria was set so low,even the government,who had shown no interest prior,were alarmed enough to publish damning warnings to them about their sub standard acceptance of competence levels

The consequences of the stampede of registering anyone with pound coins was that the trade became diluted with ill and non trained all sorts,these all sorts could now operate as registered all singing all dancing "Domestic installers" a term that should be consigned to the shameful book of history,courtesy of that abominable organisation the Niceic(the main and most prominent culprits of the destruction of this our trade)

Part P is and has been an insult to the trade of electrician

They have taken a section of an electricians remit and farmed it out to other trades as some sort of add on skill to allied trades
That farming out of part of our trade has degraded what an electrician is expected to embrace

It's all been a very shameful expensive slap in the face to the trade and it is waved a very fond good riddance
 
Part P is a waste of time i contacted our local building officer took my qualifactions down to his office and he put me on the register foc.
And it only applies to paid for work that is why saturday at B&Q everyone is queueing to buy db's and cable and sunday evening i earn £50 call out and £30 per hour putting it right.
 
Part P is a waste of time i contacted our local building officer took my qualifactions down to his office and he put me on the register foc.
And it only applies to paid for work that is why saturday at B&Q everyone is queueing to buy db's and cable and sunday evening i earn £50 call out and £30 per hour putting it right.
Which register did he put you on?
Part P does not only cover paid work mate, if you read the approved document there's a schedule in there as to what it covers and what it doesn't.
 
We know that's not how the CPS works though Robert. He may think he's scam registered but he's not. I reckon they've accepted his certs as a one off
 
Part P is a waste of time i contacted our local building officer took my qualifactions down to his office and he put me on the register foc.
And it only applies to paid for work that is why saturday at B&Q everyone is queueing to buy db's and cable and sunday evening i earn £50 call out and £30 per hour putting it right.

I'd doubt very much if more than a handful of DIYers would attempt a CU change!! Most of those shed CU's are being purchased by electricians, or by homeowners supplying materials for the job, to keep the costs down!!
 
Which register did he put you on?
Part P does not only cover paid work mate, if you read the approved document there's a schedule in there as to what it covers and what it doesn't.

As I said...sooo much confusion


Regulating the industry is the only way forward. Gas .... don't touch unless your registered. Electrics....well you can put a socket in the bedroom but if you put it in a kitchen you must notify... (In Wales from April) but not in England unless it's a new circuit. O boy, If it wasn't bad before...
 
As I said...sooo much confusion
Regulating the industry is the only way forward. Gas .... don't touch unless your registered. Electrics....well you can put a socket in the bedroom but if you put it in a kitchen you must notify... (In Wales from April) but not in England unless it's a new circuit. O boy, If it wasn't bad before...

To a point Mainman I agree but to quote a band called Placebo, It's way too broke to fix. As I've said on other debates on the regulation subject I can walk into plumb center and as long as I've got the cash I can walk out with everything I'd need to install a gas heating system with no questions asked. Halfords will sell me parts that I can then fit on your car without querying my competency to do so, I could go on and on with similar examples
Plus can you see the sheds allowing the government to tell them what they can and cannot sell? They're owned by big businesses that the government are scared of. Even further, what would happen if you suddenly got some sort of protection for our trade? The plumbers would want it, then the joiners, then the plasterers etc etc and before you know it every DIY shop in the country would be closed. The turkeys ain't going to vote for christmas mate
 
It's all been a very shameful expensive slap in the face to the trade and it is waved a very fond good riddance

So you don't think the trade should be regulated? So we will continue to see under unit lights in ktchens in 0.5mm tapped straight off cooker circuits? This is being done now, but in many cases by unregulated so called electricians. If a registered enterprise is doing it they are putting the trade to shame, it's not the fault of the scheme itself. Yes, Part P is a shambles but the whole industry needs a complete shake up and total regulation.
 
So you don't think the trade should be regulated? So we will continue to see under unit lights in ktchens in 0.5mm tapped straight off cooker circuits? This is being done now, but in many cases by unregulated so called electricians.
Ok mate, how is the regulation going to work and how is it going to be policed?
 
No idea Trev, they can't regulate guns so we've got no chance. Perhaps ask the DVLA to do it, they can sniff out an untaxed vehicle 200 miles away
 
I'd doubt very much if more than a handful of DIYers would attempt a CU change!! Most of those shed CU's are being purchased by electricians, or by homeowners supplying materials for the job, to keep the costs down!!

Its not so many years ago that wickes supplied an easy to follow fact sheet ..steps by step instructions for a cu change
 
Didn't know Wickes did it but I've seen the B&Q ones. Also seen their notice boards, "If you are not sure, ask our in-house experts". Their sales staff are consultants now, wonder if they've got indemity insurance?
 

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