commercial pir

[buttonmoon]

My first commercial pir.

I had 2 supplies, 1 3 phase the other single. the 3 phase board was supplying two other boards both 3 phase. The single phase board was supplying two boards.
Its in a restaurant spread over two floors with no clear system for where was under the jurisdiction of which DB.

Observations: No RCDs anywhere but with no baths or showers in the building and no garden area I don't think that is necessarily a problem.

Partially covering the main 3 phase DB is some seating making some of my tests on that board impossible,(Ze) plus any access to the lower circuits.

running around and between the main DB and the company fuses I found a double Socket outlet hanging loose and a load of Telecom stuff wi-fi, router or something and I think does the rule about band I and band II apply here?

One missing blanking plate is a code 1 domestically i assume the same applies

I found an old lever isolator with a big hole in the bottom on the single phase side, I don't know what that hole was for but If I'd wanted to I'm sure that I could have fitted my whole arm in there let alone the test finger that they get so excited about.

I found an assortment of wires hanging down in various cupboards and staff areas along with Tape wrapped connector blocks and loose JBs.

In a little room downstairs I found an immersion tank and a thing called a sump pump in a hole in the ground with rancid liquid around it, a selection of cables draped through the water and the smell of legionaries disease if such a thing has a smell.

I found in their office four Socket outlets feeding 15 plugs and thought a few new sockets might be a suggested remedial

I found metal lights hanging from the ceiling and walls with no continuity with the MET.

The labelling was incorrect for large parts

there was no paperwork whatsoever

The c.p.c.s and neutrals in the DBs was totally random as far as i could tell making it quite difficult to do the relevant tests without getting totally lost

I found a selection of cables where a pipe HOT/COLD? was being used to support the cables as they ran through the kitchen.

2 colours no sticker and with 3 phase we've got both live and a neutral blue cable.

2 ring mains coming out of the same 32A breaker I thought depending on load they could make it into one ring.

The worst part of this whole thing though was the fact that I couldn't find half of the stuff that was meant to be attached to the 70 or so breakers that I was meant to be testing.

Am I supposed to treat this the same as a domestic PIR or are there differences?

Should I refuse to sign the form until they remove the wall in front of the main 3 phase DB

Any assistance would be seriously appreciated I need to give in the report on Monday and would rather not look too amateurish

thanks for any help you guys can give me

 

[Deleted member 9648]

A PIR is the same for any installation....apply the codes you consider appropriate to each defect and then apply a satisfactory/unsatisfactory rating to it......in this case unsatisfactory...and hand it over. If you cannot access or identify parts of the installation to inspect and test this should be noted, A DB must be accessible and may create a danger if it cannot be accessed to isolate circuits,likewise inadequate labelling at the DB's may mean circuits cant be traced within a reasonable time....note this on the PIR.
Any defects you consider to be a real and immediate danger should be brought to the attention of those responsible for the install immediately and in writing...by means of an electrical danger notice preferably....and keep a copy.
You can find guidance on appropriate codes to apply here,
Periodic Inspection Reporting | Electrical Safety Council

 

[Guest123]

PIR's are mainly down to the descretion of the inspector at the time of test and their own interpretation of the regs which makes it hard for us to give our own codes as chances are some will be different. This is where experience is invaluable. The site wirepuller has linked to is good as it gives a fairly safe stance on coding.

 

[con-site guide]

Dont worry about it. keep it simple, you can only sign for what you have inspected and tested. anything you could not test code3, anything with immediate danger disconnect and code 1. anything not currently dangerous but which could become dangerous at a later date or under fault conditions code2. code 1 or code 2 will give an overall UNsatisfactory verdict on the report, get outta there, fire it into the person ordering the work and go on about your business. AHTHANKYOU.......
OH nearly forgot! non compliance with current regs code4

Gluck

 

[Deleted member 26818]

With the 2 supplies, is there a single point of isolation?
Do the licencing authority have any requirements such as a Fireman's switch?

 

[the pict]

Yep all to common in the catering trade no maintenance and ---- poor supervision and reporting probably due to high turnover of managers do your self a favour report it as seen, and if they ask you to quote and unless your very very short of work give it a miss overwise it's a week of night shifts trust me been there and some times I still am as to pricing a job like this ?? jeez £4000 ??? and you might make a few bob out of it
Pict