Discuss Domestic remodel - Sanity check on a couple of things in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Why all the talk of diversity? This is a single load so diversity is not applicable - not like a cooker with 4 hobs, oven and grill, which will never all be on at the same time. If this is on, it's on, and drawing 22A. As others have said, overload is not an issue so I'd go with 6.0mm2 and 32A breaker.

You can get 13A non-standard sockets (with a different shaped earth pin). Scolmore make them and I believe MK do as well. Maybe a bit pricer than 5A though.
 
The job is nearly completed, just some switches on the first floor and a socket to move and I'm done... apart from second fix once the kitchen is installed.

I actually went with 10mm for both oven and hob in the end. The hob needs it, the oven to give some headroom for the future (based on how much a of a pain in the a$$ it is with the cable runs around steels etc.) and because of insulation present in the voids.

Been a nightmare job, longer than I expected due largely to finding cable runs that fit safety zones etc., and the need to extract some cables from the dot'n'dab gunge so they were long enough for junction boxes/re-termination. Thankfully, didn't have to run an entirely new ring because the existing downstairs ring just served the ground floor (and yes, ordinarily you'd expect that, but it's a three storey house so downstairs is a little ambiguous).

Thanks for all your insight chaps, much appreciated.
 
The job is nearly completed, just some switches on the first floor and a socket to move and I'm done... apart from second fix once the kitchen is installed.

I actually went with 10mm for both oven and hob in the end. The hob needs it, the oven to give some headroom for the future (based on how much a of a pain in the a$$ it is with the cable runs around steels etc.) and because of insulation present in the voids.

Been a nightmare job, longer than I expected due largely to finding cable runs that fit safety zones etc., and the need to extract some cables from the dot'n'dab gunge so they were long enough for junction boxes/re-termination. Thankfully, didn't have to run an entirely new ring because the existing downstairs ring just served the ground floor (and yes, ordinarily you'd expect that, but it's a three storey house so downstairs is a little ambiguous).

Thanks for all your insight chaps, much appreciated.

Yep kitchen refurbs aren't so easy, but done properly are not problematically, at least not for the next electrician who comes along in ten years time. Unless your are a kitchen fitter/bodger, who doesn't care less :(
 
Well, I hope I've done alright. Much of it is labelled, the ring runs logically around the room, shame the cables can't. The only thing that does ruffle some feathers I think is some cables just pass through back boxes, mainly to keep them in safety zones and to keep the ring sequence logical. There are quite a few lighting cables, but the wiring concentrates in one place (a nest of Wago boxes secured to a joist which provide the wiring centre for the lighting).

Customer is going to get some annotated plans showing junction box locations and the safety zones being utilised. There is one place I'm a bit concerned about cable location where I think a dot'n'dab blob pushes the cable slightly out of the zone created by the accessory. Been thinking about the long drop for the hob supply which runs in the zone created by the window edge... when that edge finishes, the zone ends, so am going to pop a single gang back box and cable outlet face plate on to create a zone.

Unfortunately, couldn't get enough length on the existing ring connections in and out of the kitchen, so have had to use Wagos, lever not push, to connect the ring. Would have preferred not to, but just couldn't recover enough cable from the clutches of the dot'n'dab.

Some pics from a couple of days ago, constructive criticism is welcomed :)

Since these were taken, the lighting circuit has had all accessories connected, junction boxes connected to the ends of the floating cables (awaiting instruction from the client for locations) and it's been tested. All major cable runs for the ring and cooking appliance supplies have been IR tested and confirmed good.

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Looks ok to me,

Did you intend the accessories to be so close together? I assume you set the back boxes at a distance apart that would enable the face plates to be almost touching? this is fine provided that any future face plate is of the same size. I know some decorative ones can be larger.
I do quite a lot of kitchen re-furbs and often do the whole job including - electrics, plumbing, joinery and tiling. In my experience generally its easier for the tiler or profile glass cutter, if there is a slightly larger gap between accessories. It also tends to make for a neater job of the tiling or splash back, without much, if any detriment to the electrical accessory appearance. (obviously assuming there is going to be some sort of splash back/up stand) :)
 
Thanks for the advice on the spacing, personally I wouldn't want to be filling in the gaps. The central cluster next to the window is a real mess as it practically fell apart during cutting.

Personally I would have spaced them out a bit more, but it's what the client wanted. Pairs of double gang sockets, sounds like they want them to be mostly hidden behind things.
 
Re spacing of back boxes, I use these Home - http://www.spacerconnect.com/index.php/en/

They come in two sizes, one for accessories to be sit nest to each other, another so there is a decorative gap between them. Tend to use two to join back boxes, so there's no likelihood of movement. I also learnt to use laser level, to ensure the boxes line up with tiles & upstands, as long as the kitchen fitter does the same with his floor units!

I did see you used some oval conduit, is that for u/c lighting?

Only real question I have, is the main switch in the new CU with RCD supplying two MCB?
 
Like those spacers, will definitely be picking some of those up.

The sockets are laser levelled around the room. Yes, the conduit is for u/c lighting, still have to put one on the other wall.

Yes, the switch is supplying the RCD, then two MCBs. The original plan was to convert the existing board to two RCDs and use the new CU for some safety services only (smokes and a sprinkler system that's being installed). But, the existing board is lacking sufficient neutral bars (my mistake). So I've made do. And before anyone asks... yes there is a single point of isolation in the meter cupboard (not the DNO fuse).
 
Yep the spacers are quite handy, if a bit expensive and not all wholesalers have them. Makes life so much more easier though :)

Just wondered if you could of ditched the main switch, and just used the RCD as main switch?

Like the idea of the oval conduit, but that would be a bridge too far for my kitchen fitters. Just convinced them to notch the back of the wall units, and attach supplied lead, before they install the wall unit. Bless em.

Seem to recall, the single point of isolation, is only relevant if the two (or multiple of) are not adjacent or not obvious, i.e. CU in garage, CU in hallway?
 
Like those spacers, will definitely be picking some of those up.

The sockets are laser levelled around the room. Yes, the conduit is for u/c lighting, still have to put one on the other wall.

Yes, the switch is supplying the RCD, then two MCBs. The original plan was to convert the existing board to two RCDs and use the new CU for some safety services only (smokes and a sprinkler system that's being installed). But, the existing board is lacking sufficient neutral bars (my mistake). So I've made do. And before anyone asks... yes there is a single point of isolation in the meter cupboard (not the DNO fuse).
(My bold) Nice to see pride taken in your work. Nothing worse than uneven accessories, especially in a kitchen where they can stand out against a tiled background.
As Midwest said, I've often come across uneven cupboard units, especially the wall hung ones.
 
(My bold) Nice to see pride taken in your work. Nothing worse than uneven accessories, especially in a kitchen where they can stand out against a tiled background.
As Midwest said, I've often come across uneven cupboard units, especially the wall hung ones.

Luckily, both myself and kitchen fitters I do work for, have laser levels! They even mark the positions of the units, before I 1st fix. :)
 
The 10mm by the window is outside of any safe zone, as you say fit a blank plate to highlight the cable run


Course, 'we' could of just run it down the corner of the room, and everything would be tickety boo. Not dissing you madmaz, just this whole zone thing. :)
 
The 10mm by the window is outside of any safe zone, as you say fit a blank plate to highlight the cable run

There is a 150mm safety zone created at the angles of two faces of the wall no? Therefore it is within a safety zone where the window is, but that zone stops 150mm below the window sill... at least that's my take on it.
 

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