EICR on large hotel

[Paultrim123321]

Interesting, on another thread regarding EICR codes, someone is stating C2 for RCD protection to sockets where they maybe used for outdoor purposes.

 

[sparky351355]

Any sockets on the ground floor I would put a C2 if they have no additional protection except where omissions are allowed I.e. clearly marked dedicated sockets. Data skts etc.
Upper floors C3.

 

[oldtimer]

Listen guys C2 for no RCD and you could put yourself on the spot ie you fail the installation then you get the job to fit RCDs then the customer finds out that he or she was not obliged to get the job done and you or your company could be taken to court for fraud or deception.

Also just to highlight I am noticing guys with low posts bailing in with the I would C2 it comment can I ask what reg are you basing this on remember the landlord I mentioned earlier he had a 3036 installation and it passed but was failed because they C2 it for no RCD. They tried to argue it was their opinion and recommendation until it was pointed out to them thats what a C4 was for (PIR) and that they were negligent in their assessment.

I say this not to frighten anybody but my concern is that some guys are taking what I call the traffic warden approach to EICRs ie you have the uniform on (C&G) and now its time to kick a$$

 

[Paultrim123321]

Sorry to slightly disagree but I very much doubt you could be taken to court for 'fraud' against a NON statutory document, tho I do understand what your saying that the client can and would feel aggrieved. But if I had come across a PIR with RCD protection a C2 instead of C4, I certainly wouldn't be ringing a lawyer and I very much doubt a lawyer would be interested at all.

 

[oldtimer]

Yep you would not ring a lawyer but the landlord did and got a full refund plus costs for the CU change . Also I am still waiting for someone to tell me what reg the no RCD C2 was based on sorry to push this but I would want RCD protection everywhere but I can only advise I cannot manufacture a situation to force someone to do it so fine line yes but a lawyer would say don't get above yourself the same as a MOT tester saying sorry I have failed your car because in my opinion you should have air bags fitted . Plus if you don't think that argument will wash with you how would you feel if it was you he told.

 

[Guest111]

Sorry to slightly disagree but I very much doubt you could be taken to court for 'fraud' against a NON statutory document, tho I do understand what your saying that the client can and would feel aggrieved. But if I had come across a PIR with RCD protection a C2 instead of C4, I certainly wouldn't be ringing a lawyer and I very much doubt a lawyer would be interested at all.

they wouldn't go for faud bit obtaining money by decepton,that is where you used your position as a professional to advise someone that they needed work done to comply with a regulation that didn't need doing.

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

^^^^^^^
He never said it had to be done just advised it, yes down as a Cat 2 in some cases I agree depending on the scenario but ill bet he would be taken to court just as quick if he did not recommend it and as a result a guest ends up injured or dead,
Some one gets hurt electrically and he'd be straight in the dock.
Id always rather argue for than against RCD protection in court but that's my opinion

 

[Edd]

Had our NIC yearly assessment last month, there was a misprint on one of our certs where we had put a C3 for no RCD protection for sockets likely to be used outside, it was supposed to be the cables concealed in walls box, he said it would warrant a C2 if there was unprotected sockets that can be used outside. (it was a top floor flat we missed out the N/A). So thats the NIC's take on it as far as i'm aware, but they do make it up as they go along

 

[Guest111]

Dizzy thats the problem,joe public gets told that many lies and rip offs that when you try to help they think you are having them off,but if he's used a wrong code to try and push the issue then he's wrong,maybe well intentioned but still wrong.

 

[oldtimer]

There you go a question asked on the Voltimum forum and the answer from a Scheme provider (Select)

This Q & A is one of thousands posted in our Technical Expertise area, and answered on a daily basis by our Voltimum Experts.
Question: I'm currently carrying out a condition report of a hotel in Glasgow. There is no RCD protection throughout this hotel, and I was wondering what code to mark down for the sockets and showers etc, that the guests will have use of?
Answer: Generally, this would be a Code C3, as improvement is recommended.
Note that, for further guidance on classification codes, you could refer to Electrical Safety Council’s Best Practice Guide No. 4. For this, go to Electrical Safety Advice at Home & Work : Electrical Safety Council and look on industry menu.
To see many more Q & A in Voltimum UK's Experts Area, please click on the link. Experts from leading organisations provide online answers to your technical questions on a broad range of subjects. Our searchable database of existing Q & As now contains over 3,500 entries; you can browse through them here.
- See more at: Q & A of the Day ? For this Scottish hotel, what code for no RCDs? | voltimum.co.uk

 

[jibjob]

From memory The Electrical Safety Council suggest that it would be a C2 if you found non-RCD protected socket outlets that might be used to supply mobile equipment outdoors (or words to that effect).

 

[Flanders]

Yep you would not ring a lawyer but the landlord did and got a full refund plus costs for the CU change . Also I am still waiting for someone to tell me what reg the no RCD C2 was based on sorry to push this but I would want RCD protection everywhere but I can only advise I cannot manufacture a situation to force someone to do it so fine line yes but a lawyer would say don't get above yourself the same as a MOT tester saying sorry I have failed your car because in my opinion you should have air bags fitted . Plus if you don't think that argument will wash with you how would you feel if it was you he told.

Had to dig out an old 16th for this one it the green version Reg 471-16-1 page 58

A socket-outlet ratted at 32 amps or less which may reasonably expected to supply portable equipment for use outdoors shall be provided with supplementary protection to reduce the risk associated with direct contact by means of a residual current device.....

An as stated NIC guidance on this is a code 2 so that is what I have always done