Glad to see the domestic work is booming in the midlands

[oldtimer]

No need to get high and mighty it was not a slur but it was a critic on how can I put this your enthusiastic promotion of your business that in my opinion was bordering on the trades description act.

 

[Strima]

We have considered starting an e petition to parliament re licencing of electricians, would there be support for that if we set it up?

Carl Bennett
MD Trade Skills 4U

And who would we have to pay for re-licensing qualifications? Bit obvious to me that this is more financially driven than any other reason.

 

[Engineer54]

Hi All,

The reason we originally got involved in this thread was because our integrity and the validity of this case study was questioned. To get drawn into a debate about long and short courses is pointless because in our view people taking training are always to be supported by doing the right thing, but as a specialist electrical training provider we will always deliver the courses that current legislation and the customer demands, we just train people in currently available qualifications, we don't decide who can work in the industry.

I think what you mean here is, You will always take advantage of supplying the lowest standard of C&G qualification possible, claiming that is all that is required by the legislation. What do we care, we don't decide if these people we have trained are suitably trained to be working in any particular sector on their own.

''people taking training are Always supported by doing the right thing'' Yes, ...unless that training doesn't and/or can't deliver the levels required, to be fully competent in that profession !!!

In fact – Let’s be frank, the electrical installation industry is in practice unregulated as anyone can do anything, anywhere. As long as there is no requirement for a licence to practice as an electrician or competent installer it will continue to be the case; a completely untrained unqualified person of any age can go into a DIY store or any electrical wholesalers and buy anything, consumer units, power showers the lot and go and fit it anywhere, flying under the radar of the Part P regs which are let’s face it, poorly policed.

Again, you take full advantage of the electrical industry not being adequately regulated!! Were not talking about the DIY'ers here, they have been around forever, we are talking about those people that go through training establishments such as your own, come out the other end after 19 day's and are not that much better, than the better DIY'er... Unfortunately most seem to think they are fully trained, i can only surmise, they have been led to believe this by the training centers they have attended...

Our view is that people who join the industry, get qualified, get trained, get registered, get insurance, pay taxes are the good guys. You cannot conceivably stop the many thousands of associated trades from installing electrics, literally tens of thousands of small businesses would go bust if you did. The Aircon engineer or conservatory builder or pool engineer will never undertake a full 3 year apprenticeship and in any case only 5% of electrical contractors have the ability to take on apprentices, so who would they do their NVQ with? We train these types of small business people and are proud to support them, as we do existing electrical contractors. The greater majority of people who stand in the wholesalers queues everyday are neither properly trained nor qualified in any way. Its our view and we lobby those decision makers on your behalf, that anyone installing electrics should be legally required to be at least registered competent, until then, any discussions on forums though understandable are merely moans and irrelevant.

No-one ever told you, that a little knowledge is worse than no-knowledge?? An aircon technician hopefully would have had appropriate training from day one, which would have covered both applied and practical electrical credits attached to the relevant C&G or diploma to their industry. Are you seriously advocating training a general builder, kitchen fitter, plumber etc in snippets of electrical installation?? So what was so very wrong in the past, where these totally unrelated trades, hired a qualified electrician to undertake the electrical works on these small contracts?? In real terms all you have done for the electrical industry, is to under value and de-value the overall status of the Real Qualified Electricians in the UK!!

I was just wondering why, your all for a Registered Licensing system for electricians in the UK, then it dawned on me, all those under trained inexperienced so-called Domestic Installers that the training centers have been churning out by the thousands, will all ''Require'' further qualifications and NVQ3's in order to become a qualified licensed electrician, every angle covered, What!!! lol!!!


Why don’t you try and positively contribute to change things?

We have considered starting an e petition to parliament re licencing of electricians, would there be support for that if we set it up?

Carl Bennett
MD Trade Skills 4U

I'm just wondering what you mean by ''Integrity''?? Do you mean the integrity of knowingly putting guy's (and Gal's) out into the market place and peoples homes, that neither have the knowledge or the experience to warrant the status given to them by companies such as your own and scheme providers??

Sorry, i'm not buying into your arguments here, but i do understand as the MD of a training company, the need for you to try and find arguments for churning out these people in 19 days. But none of it has anything to do with integrity....

 

[trev]

Ok Carl, how about you post up that petition calling for a properly ran licencing system just like they have in many other countrys around the world, I reckon the support would be massive, I know I'd be posting links to it on facebook etc.
If the entry requirements were as stringent as we would like however, if it were to be implemented by some strange quirk of fate it may well put you out of business.

 

[Engineer54]

Ok Carl, how about you post up that petition calling for a properly ran licencing system just like they have in many other countrys around the world, I reckon the support would be massive, I know I'd be posting links to it on facebook etc.
If the entry requirements were as stringent as we would like however, if it were to be implemented by some strange quirk of fate it may well put you out of business.

Oh no it won't, ...but it may well put an end to these 19 day wanna-be's!!! These training companies will be feeding off the existing under qualified DI's for a good few years... lol!!!

 

[trev]

Oh no it won't, ...but it may well put an end to these 19 day wanna-be's!!! These training companies will be feeding off the existing under qualified DI's for a good few years... lol!!!

Sorry mate, didn't think of that angle. I get wound up far too easily these days, someone told me years ago that you get more tolerant with age. Ain't happening here yet

 

[Rampage]

Ok Carl, how about you post up that petition calling for a properly ran licencing system just like they have in many other countrys around the world, I reckon the support would be massive, I know I'd be posting links to it on facebook etc.
If the entry requirements were as stringent as we would like however, if it were to be implemented by some strange quirk of fate it may well put you out of business.

There was one on the e-gov website ages ago. It obviously didn't get very far!

 

[trev]

They couldn't have publicised it very well then, I'd have thought the forum members would have been all over it like a bad rash

 

[Rampage]

They couldn't have publicised it very well then, I'd have thought the forum members would have been all over it like a bad rash

The link to it was on here! Possibly one of the stickies?

 

[Engineer54]

Sorry mate, didn't think of that angle. I get wound up far too easily these days, someone told me years ago that you get more tolerant with age. Ain't happening here yet

I just get wound up by these people that play a major and systematic role in the de valuing, and break-up of our industry trying to convince us, that he is one of the good guy's.

 

[Swicade]

I seem to remember there was a time when each part of a job had it's own tradesman....not one tradesman who could do everything.

These days i often hear my dear departed grandad saying 'jack of all trades master of none' for some reason.

The colleges were doing fine doing thier bit to help those dedicated enough to do a 3 year course. It's true not many firms are taking on apprentices at present BUT maybe thats down to the fact they have enough workers to cover the workload (so no apprentices/mates needed) as there's so many people trying to do the job out there with so little work to go around.

Only my personal opinion but the rapid rate of new 'Qualified' electricians being thrown out by skill centres is making it even less likely a firm will take on a proper apprentice making people more tempted to take the quick course (as they cant get an apprenticeship)........very good marketing stratergy for maximum profit and no amount of spin or "we're trying to do XXXX to help you guys and gals out" will change my opinion (not that any skills center really cares anyway).

I best leggit quick before i get a knock on the door....

 

[trev]

That epetition closed last December so Carl, you're good to go with another. Fill yer boots bonny lad and let us have the link to it when it's published

 

[Rampage]

That epetition closed last December so Carl, you're good to go with another. Fill yer boots bonny lad and let us have the link to it when it's published

He said he's not coming back for now.
Why don't you do it?
i had to listen to a 15 minute rant about it from someone at work. I told him about the e-petition but he didn't seem interested. I asked him 2 weeks later if he had signed it and the reply was "why should I"

 

[trev]

He said he's not coming back for now.
Why don't you do it?
i had to listen to a 15 minute rant about it from someone at work. I told him about the e-petition but he didn't seem interested. I asked him 2 weeks later if he had signed it and the reply was "why should I"

PM sent in reply mate

 

[Guitarist]

Our view is that people who join the industry, get qualified, get trained, get registered, get insurance, pay taxes are the good guys. You cannot conceivably stop the many thousands of associated trades from installing electrics, literally tens of thousands of small businesses would go bust if you did. The Aircon engineer or conservatory builder or pool engineer will never undertake a full 3 year apprenticeship

Carl Bennett
MD Trade Skills 4U

I must be missing something here, but isn't that where a time-served, qualified electrician comes in?
I don't install gas systems when I am rewiring a house, I get a gas engineer in. That doesn't mean that I will go bust!

 

[Engineer54]

I must be missing something here, but isn't that where a time-served, qualified electrician comes in?
I don't install gas systems when I am rewiring a house, I get a gas engineer in. That doesn't mean that I will go bust!

One of my points too mate, The guy is more than willing to further de-skill our industry because it means more opportunities to cash in. What he can't or don't want to see, is that it won't be all those associated trades that will be going out of business, it'll be the qualified electricians he has robbed of there trade....

 

[oldtimer]

Guys I know this post has been an eyeopener but just to say he will not be back on as somebody with his ego cuts and run hence why the wee dig ie you guys have caught me out so heres a dig before I retreat and look like I am taking the moral high ground.

Well been on this forum 3 years and this post tells me everything that is wrong in our trade and yes at times its frustrating because these clowns are running the show but there is one thing I have learned is that when people tell me that this country is the leader when it comes to standards well I am sorry we are no better than some currupt third world country we just better in dressing it up for public consumption.

I would also say that when you hear a politician slag off Europe remember we are the clowns for letting them brainwash us to thinking Europe is the Boogy man here because lets face it they have electricians registration schemes yep you can fool some of the people all the time..............................................................

 

[Guitarist]

Because the electrical profession has always been seen as very lucrative, it was inevitable that many people and organisations would find a way to capitalise on that illusion.
Unfortunately, our profession is now saturated with people who have completed a few weeks of training and believe themselves to be "fully qualified".
Of course there have always been DIY'ers and trades who have "had a go at electrics", but these people didn't set themselves up, with limited knowledge, to practice their skills full-time in peoples' homes.

 

[Adam W]

This term "fully qualified" seems to get bandied around rather a lot. I'd be interested to hear what TradeSkills4U define as being a 'full' set of qualifications, and what the alternative is. From his post the MD of TradeSkills 4U seems to have admitted that they package together a load of certificates in response to what customers want, ie being called "fully qualified" in the shortest amount of time, rather than complying with any specific guidelines, because apparently there aren't any.
I would use TradeSkills4U's definition of a "fully qualified electrician" to compare with that of the JIB.

I get the impression TradeSkills4U would be happy to sell someone a standalone 17th edition course and call them a 'fully qualified electrician' if it's what they ask for and will pay for.

"If I give you an extra fifty quid can I have my picture taken wearing a black gown and mortarboard, holding a scroll?"


Considering there's apparently no formal training requirements for electricians we could soon see the '1 day wonder':

9:00 Registration
9:10 "What is an electrician?"
10:30 Tea break
11:00 Introduction to terminology
11:30 Navigating the regs
12:00 Buffet lunch
13:00 Exam tips and tricks
13:30 Setting up your business
14:30 Tea Break
15:00 City & Guilds 2382 Exam
16:00 Graduation as a fully qualified electrician.

 

[Guitarist]

This term "fully qualified" seems to get bandied around rather a lot. I'd be interested to hear what TradeSkills4U define as being a 'full' set of qualifications, and what the alternative is. From his post the MD of TradeSkills 4U seems to have admitted that they package together a load of certificates in response to what customers want, ie being called "fully qualified" in the shortest amount of time, rather than complying with any specific guidelines, because apparently there aren't any.
I would use TradeSkills4U's definition of a "fully qualified electrician" to compare with that of the JIB.

I get the impression TradeSkills4U would be happy to sell someone a standalone 17th edition course and call them a 'fully qualified electrician' if it's what they ask for and will pay for.

"If I give you an extra fifty quid can I have my picture taken wearing a black gown and mortarboard, holding a scroll?"


Considering there's apparently no formal training requirements for electricians we could soon see the '1 day wonder':

9:00 Registration
9:10 "What is an electrician?"
10:30 Tea break
11:00 Introduction to terminology
11:30 Navigating the regs
12:00 Buffet lunch
13:00 Exam tips and tricks
13:30 Setting up your business
14:30 Tea Break
15:00 City & Guilds 2382 Exam
16:00 Graduation as a fully qualified electrician.

Only an hour for lunch?