Health and safety guidance - Northern Ireland

[aaroncappa]

Hi folks. I'm not an electrician but I thought this would be a good place to get some guidance and get some understanding on health and safety when it comes to electric engineers.

I am from Northern Ireland. I just had a prepayment meter removed and a new meter installed for a direct debit tariff this morning.
NIE are the main guys here. I asked the engineer for a health and safety certificate after he installed the meter and he was surprised when I asked him. He asked why.

I told him about a fire that happened in a friends house where he got the blame for it after a meter was installed.

He then showed me what he had installed and said the seal on the meter links to him and if something happens he would be responsible. However he said that if there was a fire it would have been the white switch box or the black cables on the right side coming into the property that would have caused the fire.

Isn't there something these engineers are supposed to produce? What is the deal with health and safety certificates for installing meters? Surely there is laws regarding this.

I also have another friend got his own meter installed by an independent qualified engineer and they cut his electric off in the street claiming it was because of health and safety and he was provided with a certificate, which they claimed wasn't valid as only they could do the health and safety checks and validate a certificate. So as you can see there is some confusion as to what is true here. If these engineers don't provide them then what qualifies the safety?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Deleted account]

No they don’t need to produce anything. The supply industry is a law unto itself. It’s regulations are totally different to ours.

Once the supply gets past the meter it becomes our regs under b.s7671. we would have to produce a certificate if we did anything.

we can’t touch there stuff and they can’t touch ours.

 

[aaroncappa]

No they don’t need to produce anything. The supply industry is a law unto itself. It’s regulations are totally different to ours.

Once the supply gets past the meter it becomes our regs under b.s7671. we would have to produce a certificate if we did anything.

we can’t touch there stuff and they can’t touch ours.

So How do i go about getting my own installed?

It sounds like jurisdictions are at play here. Essentially paying for the meter they install.

 

[Deleted account]

Sorry I thought you said you have had your new meter installed.

 

[aaroncappa]

Sorry I thought you said you have had your new meter installed.

It wasn't one I purchased. It was through energy billing company (Budget Energy) on a direct debit tariff. NIE are the guys who install the meters and I assume own them, They do the distribution and transmission. I am pushing towards getting my own as I am aware there is no law that states we have to pay for electricity. My aim was to get off pre-paid so I can control how much I am paying them until im in a position to get my own installed.

So are you saying I can get my own installed but I am aware I will have a legal battle to stop them trying to coerce me back into paying them again.

 

[nicebutdim]

NIE Networks are responsible for the installation and reading of all meters in NI, regardless of who supplies power to your premises.

NIE Networks own your meter and the incoming cable. If you pay another provider for power and want them to fit a different meter, that work would be carried out by NIE Networks who would provide the new meter and they would also own it.

Perhaps there is no law that states we have to pay for electricity, I don't know, but before going down that path I'd recommend finding out if any law obliges power companies to provide a supply to customers who choose not to pay for the service.

 

[Deleted account]

It wasn't one I purchased. It was through energy billing company (Budget Energy) on a direct debit tariff. NIE are the guys who install the meters and I assume own them, They do the distribution and transmission. I am pushing towards getting my own as I am aware there is no law that states we have to pay for electricity. My aim was to get off pre-paid so I can control how much I am paying them until im in a position to get my own installed.

So are you saying I can get my own installed but I am aware I will have a legal battle to stop them trying to coerce me back into paying them again.

Sorry, you have lost me there.

As to what you think I’m saying, no I’m not saying that.

I’m not aware of any law that states you don’t have to pay for electricity.

Maybe NI is different to mainland, but I can’t see how.

 

[freddo]

I'm not sure I understand why you want to fit your own meter?

 

[nicebutdim]

For anyone curious about the slightly different distribution arrangement in NI, it's very well explained by the Utility Regulator.

Consumer information

www.uregni.gov.uk

 

[BenCos18]

It wasn't one I purchased. It was through energy billing company (Budget Energy) on a direct debit tariff. NIE are the guys who install the meters and I assume own them, They do the distribution and transmission. I am pushing towards getting my own as I am aware there is no law that states we have to pay for electricity. My aim was to get off pre-paid so I can control how much I am paying them until im in a position to get my own installed.

So are you saying I can get my own installed but I am aware I will have a legal battle to stop them trying to coerce me back into paying them again.

no
you can add your own meter after you really wanted but it would be pointless
in reality what you pay for for the most part is the electricity you use
you can have your supply disconnected if you don't pay for it so no to the last question

 

[aaroncappa]

Ok well I have got legal advice and I have done my own research on all of this for months now. I am in contact with many who have done this themselves.

There is NO law that states we can't install our own meter (done by qualified engineer of course) and there is NO law that states we "must" pay for electricity either.

Also we must understand the difference between LAW and LEGAL!

Statutes and Acts aren't LAW. They only apply to "PERSON'S"

I am a "living man" not a person. It would do you well if you looked up the definitions of these words and the language that is used to deceive us.

I am NOT crazy, and I am not bullshitting either. I am talking FACTS. I can assure you or I wouldn't be asking these questions.

The performance to pay energy companies who aren't actually suppliers but in fact "BROKERS" is by definition FRAUD.

They are committing fraud and they get away with it because we give consent. That consent is implied. It is given through IGNORANCE. It is presumed.

There is a massive difference between PUBLIC and PRIVATE.

Maybe I have chosen the wrong forum to ask these questions. But it seems it was a good place to ask since I am no electrician. However I do know the difference between LAW and LEGAL fiction.

Thanks for the replies anyhow.

 

[davesparks]

There is NO law that states we can't install our own meter (done by qualified engineer of course) and there is NO law that states we "must" pay for electricity either.

Indeed, there is in fact a law which states you can supply your own meter to be installed by a suitably qualified and registered person and tbe energy company must accept this meter, the meter must comply with the current standards for accuracy and traceability.

And no, there is no law that states you must pay for electricty, you are free to choose not to use any electricty and cannot be forced into using electricty. However if you do choose to use electricity from the national grid you need to pay for it via your chosen supplier.

Do you also assume you can take other energy supplies without paying for them? Do you fill up your personal conveyance with fuel and not pay for it? (I assume from the tone of your post that you believe yourself to be a living man who uses a personal conveyance and not a person who owns a vehicle)

 

[pirate]

"Also we must understand the difference between LAW and LEGAL!
Statutes and Acts aren't LAW. They only apply to "PERSON'S"
I am a "living man" not a person"

Just so I can get my head round this...Statutes and Acts aren't Law. If the Government passes an Act, doesn't this become Law?
Don't some Acts apply to the people and some to Companies and other incoporated bodies, and some to everybody and all entities? Thus, such Acts apply to people/persons regardless of how they choose to identify themselves. After all, "person" is a term used extensively in Legislation to encompass living men, living women, living children, firms,companies,charitable organisations and generally every "body" capable of being identified as (an) Individual entity.
Thus, I can't see how, by choosing to define yourself as a "living man" you can escape/ignore the Law. If that were possible, every person/body/individual could choose to identify as a "living man" and not be subject to the Law. I think you would agree that that would be an impossible society. If I, as a person, drive my car recklessly and kill another person, I have broken several Laws, but that would not be the case if you, a living man, drove your personal conveyance in the same manner, with the same result...thus you are effectively saying that laws don't apply to you.

You do not have to pay for electricity, unless you choose to use some.
You do not have to buy groceries at your local store, but by filling your basket there you do have to pay.
As soon as you put an item into your basket, with the intention of taking it away, you have appropriated such item to the implied contract you have made with the store. Failure to pay is then theft, an offence punishable under the Law.
As you stated, consent is implied, and even though you may not have a written contract with,say,an electricity supplier, perhaps because you "inherited" an existing supply when you moved into a house, there is still an implied contract whereby if you avail yourself of the supply then you must pay for what you use.

If such a situation doesn't apply to you, why would you need an additional electricity meter, given you appear to think that the Law doesn't apply to you and therefore you don't need to pay anything?

 

[Deleted account]

Yes wrong forum. Either a legal forum or a mental health forum May have been better.

 

[DPG]

This has got all the hallmarks of one of those people you get on Facebook who claim they can opt out of policing by consent and who look for ways of being awkward by copying & pasting things that other similar folk have posted. They like the words statute, yeoman, etc. And I'm loving the 'person' / 'living man' thing!

If you think you can get free electricity, gas, water, whatever then good luck to you. Bit unfair on the companies who produce it though - would YOU work for nothing? And it's a bit selfish when the rest of us pay.

 

[aaroncappa]

"Also we must understand the difference between LAW and LEGAL!
Statutes and Acts aren't LAW. They only apply to "PERSON'S"
I am a "living man" not a person"

Just so I can get my head round this...Statutes and Acts aren't Law. If the Government passes an Act, doesn't this become Law?
Don't some Acts apply to the people and some to Companies and other incoporated bodies, and some to everybody and all entities? Thus, such Acts apply to people/persons regardless of how they choose to identify themselves. After all, "person" is a term used extensively in Legislation to encompass living men, living women, living children, firms,companies,charitable organisations and generally every "body" capable of being identified as (an) Individual entity.
Thus, I can't see how, by choosing to define yourself as a "living man" you can escape/ignore the Law. If that were possible, every person/body/individual could choose to identify as a "living man" and not be subject to the Law. I think you would agree that that would be an impossible society. If I, as a person, drive my car recklessly and kill another person, I have broken several Laws, but that would not be the case if you, a living man, drove your personal conveyance in the same manner, with the same result...thus you are effectively saying that laws don't apply to you.

You do not have to pay for electricity, unless you choose to use some.
You do not have to buy groceries at your local store, but by filling your basket there you do have to pay.
As soon as you put an item into your basket, with the intention of taking it away, you have appropriated such item to the implied contract you have made with the store. Failure to pay is then theft, an offence punishable under the Law.
As you stated, consent is implied, and even though you may not have a written contract with,say,an electricity supplier, perhaps because you "inherited" an existing supply when you moved into a house, there is still an implied contract whereby if you avail yourself of the supply then you must pay for what you use.

If such a situation doesn't apply to you, why would you need an additional electricity meter, given you appear to think that the Law doesn't apply to you and therefore you don't need to pay anything?

Show me where I signed the contract! Statutes and Acts aren't law. They are leglislation. LAW is made by living men and women. Not DEAD FICTIONAL ENTITIES! If you can't work out that. Then you are the definition of a slave. And no where does it say a man "must" pay anything.

 

[aaroncappa]

This has got all the hallmarks of one of those people you get on Facebook who claim they can opt out of policing by consent and who look for ways of being awkward by copying & pasting things that other similar folk have posted. They like the words statute, yeoman, etc. And I'm loving the 'person' / 'living man' thing!

If you think you can get free electricity, gas, water, whatever then good luck to you. Bit unfair on the companies who produce it though - would YOU work for nothing? And it's a bit selfish when the rest of us pay.

Where is the evidence they produce it?

They transmit and distribute it. You need to know the meanings of the words you use. Clearly you don't know the difference. You don't opt out of consent either. Have you any idea how stupid that is. Consent is a choice. It can't be given by anyone except I, a living man. It's not decided by anyone else. Slave mentality comes to mind again.

 

[westward10]

Can everyone calm down or this thread will be gone. Not sure what it is all about anyway.

 

[DPG]

Where is the evidence they produce it?

They transmit and distribute it. You need to know the meanings of the words you use. Clearly you don't know the difference. You don't opt out of consent either. Have you any idea how stupid that is. Consent is a choice. It can't be given by anyone except I, a living man. It's not decided by anyone else. Slave mentality comes to mind again.

Oh my word, there's a guy ranting on a Facebook police page with almost identical wording. Do you all get this stuff from the same website? Why do you need to use the term 'living man'? What does this signify in your world.

And you are saying the power generating companies do not generate power? Not sure I'm with you there. And I do know the difference between generation and transmission by the way.

Obviously you are free to generate your own electricity and use it as you wish. But if you take something that someone else is producing (or distributing) then you cannot expect them to do it for free.

Oh and give it a rest with all the capitalisation - we're grown ups here and it comes across as a bit patronising.

 

[ferg]

The meter is just a measuring device, all it does is count the number of units you are using.
Who owns it does not affect how many units you are using nor does it alter the cost per unit.

I don't understand law nor do I understand quantum physics so I tend to follow conventional wisdom.

In your case that would be, if you use it you pay for it.

It is possible to generate your own electricity. How easy this would be depends on your location and your financial means.