LED lamps not working after only 3 weeks

[flyingsparc]

Hello,


4 weeks ago I replaced 4 x halogen MR16and their transformers with 4 x LEDlite 4.9W MR16 lamps like this -4.9 Watt 38° High Power MR16 LED Lamp - Daylight White - V9


With each new lamp I fitted a newdimmable driver like this -Dimmable Driver for use with LEDlite MR16 LampsI know the lamps are non dimmable, and there is no dimmer fitted(just a standard plate switch) but thought its still a driver soshould be ok, right?


After advising my customer the longerlamp life etc of LED lamps (his flat is full of elv halogen recesseddown lights), and he was fed up with the expense of ongoingreplacement and maintenance work.


I got a call today to say that over thelast week or so, all 4 have stopped working.


The photo in the link for the driverdoes say 3W, I dont think I would have missed this, but I am going toto the flat tomorrow to check, but they are what I was told I neededat counter.


The only other thing I can think of isthat the info TLC provide for the lamps, its says -


“Use with existing Lv transformer,subject to transformer minimum wattage requirement)” blah blah, andthen “an LED Driver is not required”


Anyone else had problems like this, orcould offer any advice, just trying to understand what if anything Ihave done wrong.


Many thanks

 

[Octopus]

Always buy the lamps and transformers from the same place!

 

[flyingsparc]

I did, lamps and drivers both from same place.

 

[Octopus]

Or just junk the transformers and fit GU10 led's

 

[bugsy]

are the led lamps for use with existing transformers or DC drivers

- - - Updated - - -

Or just junk the transformers and fit GU10 led's

defeats the object

 

[bugsy]

just read the lamp spec - you cocked up with the drivers

 

[flyingsparc]

The lamp spec says use with existing transformers, I assumed (and perhaps wrongly) that having read lots of specs for LED mr16's that a lot of them can be run via transformers, but drivers have been developed for LEDs, and are DC, so they would be best suited. Really feeling like I should have kept transformers now, perhaps a big (and expensive) lesson learnt....maybe, will see what wholesalers say tomorrow.

If it is a c@~K up, I hope others can learn from this!

 

[dan86]

gonna be honest and admit I haven't read any of the replies, but from the subject, I thought you'd been using the lamps from this thread!

 

[flyingsparc]

Uhmmm, just looked at that thread, and came back here to see if any other post made, it is the first time I have used these ones from TLC, although I still don't know for sure that I have made a mistake here, we will see tomorrow, thanks for comments so far.

 

[TheDJ]

I,ll never understand why people use transformers or drivers . It's just one more thing that can go wrong. Just use gu10 LEDs , if lamp goes customer can pop to b&q and change it themselves.

 

[ackbarthestar]

It might be wise to take on board that these trade sheds are selling this new low power hype span down from the trade sellers.

There is no real evidence that LEDs work for the time stated on the packet. 100,000 hours is standard for a LED indicator lamp. Once you ramp up the current then anything can happen.
Last year the MTBF lamp life went down to 50,000 hours and now it stands at 30,000 hours.

When you look at how they are fired up, leading edge, trailing edge or PWM control and whether to use a constant voltage Tx or a constant current Tx you have enough variables to cause all sorts of failure.

Then when the lamps fail do they blow open circuit or closed circuit. MOSFETS are known to blow S/C which means all the lights have to be removed so that the MCB can be reset.

To summarize, this is new technology and everybody is in the business in selling snake oil, so don't let the trade counters blow smoke up your rear orifice.....

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Well at this stage you've no certainty whether it's the lamps or the drivers that have gone pop. If the wattages are as per your pics, I think I can guess...

 

[tazz]

From your links....it shows you have fitted 5w led fittings with a 3w led driver......At a guess would think the drivers have gone bye bye......!!!!!

 

[Engineer54]

I don't believe any of this 50K /100K hour hype. Maybe the manufactures can attain such longevity in or under controlled conditions, in order to make such claims, but out there in the real world, it's pure wishful thinking!! 10 to 20K hours at a push depending on working cycles is probably the more realistic life span. And that with diminishing lamp output efficiency to boot!! lol!!

In the OP's case, it's a case of mis-matched lamp and driver, and as Tazz has stated, more likely it's the drivers that's gone pop!!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I don't believe any of this 50K /100K hour hype. Maybe the manufactures can attain such longevity in or under controlled conditions, in order to make such claims, but out there in the real world, it's pure wishful thinking!! 10 to 20K hours at a push depending on working cycles is probably the more realistic life span. And that with diminishing lamp output efficiency to boot!! lol!!

In the OP's case, it's a case of mis-matched lamp and driver, and as Tazz has stated, more likely it's the drivers that's gone pop!!

Spot on......anyone selling led lamps to their customers on the basis of 50000hrs plus is set for a fall. We now ask customers to record weekly lamp usage when first installed so that in the event of early failure we can go back to suppliers with documented evidence. We ALWAYS return lamps which fall way short of the wildly optimistic life claims by manufacturers and have had whole batches replaced before.You have to be persistant,dont let them fob you off,if everyone did this manufacturers might be more realistic about their products.

 

[flyingsparc]

Update for anyone who may beinterested....


Went to customer flat this morning,removed all 4 lamps and drivers (left lamps and drivers connected asthey were).


Took them straight to wholesaler.


Indecently, the drivers used were notthe same ones as my posted link, their actual spec was -


Power 3-5W
Input 200-250V AC
Output 12V DC


3 out of the 4 drivers had a smallslightly melted/distorted mark in exactly the same place on itcasing, which I pointed out to person serving me.


The lamp packaging stated 12V AC/DC onit.


The wholesaler were unable to test thelamps there and then in house, although I offered to make somethingfor them if they gave me the bits, but was declined.


No explanation could be given, but aswap out was offered, but having lost confidence in drivers and notwanting the same problem again I opted for 0-60w electronictransformers, and replacement of same lamps.


Went back re installed it all again,all working fine, my (good) customer happy with overall outcome, Iwill only go GU10 from now on I think.


Fingers crossed.

 

[mhar]

I advise that 30/50,000 hours is the quoted life of the led, not the unit as a whole. It is frequently the drivers that fail (cob technology).
Tried to return some GU10's which blew quite spectacularly apparently, the first lot of 3 went all together early summer after 3 months use blowing the fuse, the second lot followed a couple of weeks later (different fitting), again blowing the fuse. Circuit ir >299MOhms. Each blown lamp showed dead short. Each fitting was circular and open so good ventilation with the three lamp holders about 20 deg off horizontal. Was told that they were installed incorrectly as the chip cooling tubes within the bulb had to be vertical to allow for cooling. Big named brands only from then on

 

[HandySparks]

No explanation could be given, but aswap out was offered, but having lost confidence in drivers and notwanting the same problem again I opted for 0-60w electronictransformers, and replacement of same lamps.

Well at least TLC were co-operative. On the odd occasion that I've had a problem (their fault or mine), they've always been helpful. That's one of the reasons I use their LED downlights; they're guaranteed for 5 years and I've some confidence in them being around if I ever need to take them up on it.