Discuss Limit current drawn from generator in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I have a 1kw peak output generator.
900w continuous.
My boat has an immersion heating element that draws 1kw. This will make my generator cut out. I know that if the heating element could only be fed 900w it would still work but just take that little longer to heat the water. So my question is, what can I put inline so that only a max of 900w can be drawn from my generator so it doesn’t cut out. Buying a bigger generator isn’t an option as I bought this one for just £50 with a fuel tap fault that I have now fixed, and it’s only 54db. To get a higher output generator at that volume of noise is expensive so just want to do as suggested above.
 
I have a 1kw peak output generator.
900w continuous.
My boat has an immersion heating element that draws 1kw. This will make my generator cut out. I know that if the heating element could only be fed 900w it would still work but just take that little longer to heat the water. So my question is, what can I put inline so that only a max of 900w can be drawn from my generator so it doesn’t cut out. Buying a bigger generator isn’t an option as I bought this one for just £50 with a fuel tap fault that I have now fixed, and it’s only 54db. To get a higher output generator at that volume of noise is expensive so just want to do as suggested above.
A suitable sixed MCB or overload device separate from the genny.
 
Sorry to say, but you're on a hiding to nothing with this. I'm not going to say it can't be done, but I am going to say that it shouldn't and ultimately you'll thank me for it. Bottom line is that you can't get a quart from a pint pot.
 
As alluded to above, the workaround is to reduce the element voltage. This can be a more satisfactory solution than changing the element if the power can be varied to allow for other loads being used at the same time etc. So while changing the element is an option, and probably the best option if you are not electrically experienced, it's not the way I would go personally. (Personally, I would avoid heating water with a generator-fed immersion but I know there are times when it is useful to do that.)

First point, don't reduce the power with a phase-angle controlled device (dimmer, triac regulator) as the generator voltage will probably go wobbly. A transformer is what you need. A variac will give infinite control all the way to zero but at great expense. An autotransformer with suitable taps is the conventional approach. If the element is rated at 1kW at 240V and we want to reduce it to 800W, the voltage required would be 240 x sqrt(800/1000)= 215V. Suppose the generator gives 230V under full load. A 1kVA autotransformer with 220, 230, 240V taps, with the 240V tap to the generator and the 220V tap to the load, will give 220/240x230= 211V, or 773W. This will allow some room for the unavoidable loss in the transformer.

But a general-purpose autotransformer of that size is still £100+.Because the desired reduction is a small fraction of the supply voltage there is another transformer approach that is cheaper; the smaller the reduction percentage the cheaper it is. This is a bucking transformer, which is just a stepdown transformer with a primary to suit the supply and a secondary rated for the actual load current at a voltage equal to the desired reduction. The primary is connected across the supply, the secondary is connected in series with the load but in antiphase*, so its voltage opposes the supply.

In the above example, we want to reduce the 230V generator output by 15V, so we choose a transformer with a 15V secondary. The element resistance is (240)²/1000 = 57.6Ω making the current 215/57.6=3.7A. The required bucking transformer is then 3.7 x 15 = 56VA or greater. So the problem can be solved with a transformer like this for £23, wired with its two secondaries in parallel:

75VA 15V chassis-mounting transformer at RS

I will stress that if you are not electrically skilled I don't recommend 'having a go' at this, as you will need to consider fusing, thermal protection etc. But if you can build this safely, I contend that it is the cheapest and easiest solution that works perfectly but still allows you to use the element at full power on a shoreline in the future.

*Where does the 'missing' power go? Well, the transformer draws its magnetising current from the 230V winding, but the power flow is actually from the 15V side back to the 230V side, in effect feeding the sliced-off bit of power back to the beginning to lessen the load on the generator.
 
As alluded to above, the workaround is to reduce the element voltage. This can be a more satisfactory solution than changing the element if the power can be varied to allow for other loads being used at the same time etc. So while changing the element is an option, and probably the best option if you are not electrically experienced, it's not the way I would go personally. (Personally, I would avoid heating water with a generator-fed immersion but I know there are times when it is useful to do that.)

First point, don't reduce the power with a phase-angle controlled device (dimmer, triac regulator) as the generator voltage will probably go wobbly. A transformer is what you need. A variac will give infinite control all the way to zero but at great expense. An autotransformer with suitable taps is the conventional approach. If the element is rated at 1kW at 240V and we want to reduce it to 800W, the voltage required would be 240 x sqrt(800/1000)= 215V. Suppose the generator gives 230V under full load. A 1kVA autotransformer with 220, 230, 240V taps, with the 240V tap to the generator and the 220V tap to the load, will give 220/240x230= 211V, or 773W. This will allow some room for the unavoidable loss in the transformer.

But a general-purpose autotransformer of that size is still £100+.Because the desired reduction is a small fraction of the supply voltage there is another transformer approach that is cheaper; the smaller the reduction percentage the cheaper it is. This is a bucking transformer, which is just a stepdown transformer with a primary to suit the supply and a secondary rated for the actual load current at a voltage equal to the desired reduction. The primary is connected across the supply, the secondary is connected in series with the load but in antiphase*, so its voltage opposes the supply.

In the above example, we want to reduce the 230V generator output by 15V, so we choose a transformer with a 15V secondary. The element resistance is (240)²/1000 = 57.6Ω making the current 215/57.6=3.7A. The required bucking transformer is then 3.7 x 15 = 56VA or greater. So the problem can be solved with a transformer like this for £23, wired with its two secondaries in parallel:

75VA 15V chassis-mounting transformer at RS

I will stress that if you are not electrically skilled I don't recommend 'having a go' at this, as you will need to consider fusing, thermal protection etc. But if you can build this safely, I contend that it is the cheapest and easiest solution that works perfectly but still allows you to use the element at full power on a shoreline in the future.

*Where does the 'missing' power go? Well, the transformer draws its magnetising current from the 230V winding, but the power flow is actually from the 15V side back to the 230V side, in effect feeding the sliced-off bit of power back to the beginning to lessen the load on the generator.
As I said.... it can be done. But it's a sure fire way to burn out the windings on a cheap small genny.
 
As alluded to above, the workaround is to reduce the element voltage. This can be a more satisfactory solution than changing the element if the power can be varied to allow for other loads being used at the same time etc. So while changing the element is an option, and probably the best option if you are not electrically experienced, it's not the way I would go personally. (Personally, I would avoid heating water with a generator-fed immersion but I know there are times when it is useful to do that.)

First point, don't reduce the power with a phase-angle controlled device (dimmer, triac regulator) as the generator voltage will probably go wobbly. A transformer is what you need. A variac will give infinite control all the way to zero but at great expense. An autotransformer with suitable taps is the conventional approach. If the element is rated at 1kW at 240V and we want to reduce it to 800W, the voltage required would be 240 x sqrt(800/1000)= 215V. Suppose the generator gives 230V under full load. A 1kVA autotransformer with 220, 230, 240V taps, with the 240V tap to the generator and the 220V tap to the load, will give 220/240x230= 211V, or 773W. This will allow some room for the unavoidable loss in the transformer.

But a general-purpose autotransformer of that size is still £100+.Because the desired reduction is a small fraction of the supply voltage there is another transformer approach that is cheaper; the smaller the reduction percentage the cheaper it is. This is a bucking transformer, which is just a stepdown transformer with a primary to suit the supply and a secondary rated for the actual load current at a voltage equal to the desired reduction. The primary is connected across the supply, the secondary is connected in series with the load but in antiphase*, so its voltage opposes the supply.

In the above example, we want to reduce the 230V generator output by 15V, so we choose a transformer with a 15V secondary. The element resistance is (240)²/1000 = 57.6Ω making the current 215/57.6=3.7A. The required bucking transformer is then 3.7 x 15 = 56VA or greater. So the problem can be solved with a transformer like this for £23, wired with its two secondaries in parallel:

75VA 15V chassis-mounting transformer at RS

I will stress that if you are not electrically skilled I don't recommend 'having a go' at this, as you will need to consider fusing, thermal protection etc. But if you can build this safely, I contend that it is the cheapest and easiest solution that works perfectly but still allows you to use the element at full power on a shoreline in the future.

*Where does the 'missing' power go? Well, the transformer draws its magnetising current from the 230V winding, but the power flow is actually from the 15V side back to the 230V side, in effect feeding the sliced-off bit of power back to the beginning to lessen the load on the generator.
electrically minded and competent enough for the wiring. I had found a variable voltage regulator then remember ohms law facts that if I drop the voltage the papers he draw would be higher and those variable voltage regulators I believe do not drop both voltage and current. I have however found this... https://www.vetus.com/en/fresh-wate...lement-230-volt-500-watt-with-thermostat.html
It’s only 500w but I guess it allows me to not make the generator run at max load for too long and allows me to run my battery boats charger too. I’d have thought there would be more on the market like a 800w element but I can not find a thing.

anyways thanks for your detailed response, makes a lot of sense and very helpful
 
if I drop the voltage the papers he draw would be higher
If 'papers' was 'amps' or 'current' before your autocorrect kicked in, that's not right. The heating element is a resistor, current is proportional to voltage (as per ohms law). Reducing the voltage by 10% reduces the current by 10% also, and hence the power by 100-(0.9 x 0.9) = 19%. Other types of load such as switched-mode PSUs behave differently, increasing their current consumption to make up for low voltage as you imply.

Wasting your time IMO

If the only supply available to the OP is the genny, then the smaller element might be the most practical way forward. But in general, when you are trying to run your entire house on a variety power sources some of which are very limited, flexibility is key and a larger element that can be turned down is more flexible than a smaller one. I use this system on my boat, I can turn down all my heating load without turning anything off, so that it uses the difference between the available supply and what I need for other appliances.
 

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