New En-Suite – What electrical testing & certification is required?

[robinsmith30]

Hi guys,

This is my 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] post to the forums and concerns electrical regulations and specifically certification. I have recently had a new en-suite fitted, and the quotation included
“Electrician to supply and install new fuse spur in roof space for new shower”
“The price is subject to survey and includes electrical testing & certification”.
I would like to clarify which electrical certification is required as I am waiting to receive this.

Pre-work, the bedroom had a thermostatic shower in the corner of the room, with a light above the shower, and extractor initiated by a wall switch.

The work fitted a square room in the corner of the room in the place where the old shower was, and includes a 2 new bathroom rated spotlights, an Aqualisa controlled shower (thermostatic but controller by an illuminated switch) a new extractor fan with timer and a heated mirror with lights built in.

What type of electrical certification should I expect?

I note that IET Setting Standards for electrical installation (Part P) [1] state that
Notifiable work also includes additions to existing circuits in kitchens, bathrooms, outdoors and in other special locations. (See question 5 note 5.)

Question 5, note 5 states
Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (5) and consists of:
- adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (6)
- adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (6)

In the en-suite there was previously a fan, and lights, there are now is a new fan, lights and electric mirror.

What is the electrical certificate I should expect the electrician to supply?
I am really keen to get the right certification.

Two years ago when I moved from my flat to this house, I needed to get a “Domestic Electric Inspection Periodic Inspection Report” as a requirement for renting the flat. The electrician found a number of faults with the electric in the flat in a kitchen I had had installed the year before (with new power units and extractor). £630 work of work were required to bring the electrics up to a position where the Domestic Electric Inspection Periodic Report was to a standard approved for rental. My lesson learned from this was ‘ensure that the work is done correctly at install time”.

As we may rent out this house in future we are keen the same situation does not happen again

1. Should I get a Periodic Inspection Report done now) for peace of mind OR
2. Does the certification that the electrician provides effectively give the same assurance, so the PIR is not provided?
3. What is the documentation I should look for the electrician to provide for this work.

I’d appreciate the advice of electricians on here.

Finally, my location is South Leicestershire, for any recommended electricians that do PIR work, what should I look to pay for a full PIR for rental for a 4 bedroom house (with any faults documented so I can give to my en-suite supplier to resolve)?

[1] IET Setting Standards for electrical installation
Building Regulations - Part P FAQs - IET Electrical

Kind regards,
Robin

 

[Octopus]

Minor Works Certificate for the modified circuits and as its in a bathroom LABC notification

Edit: and if you haven't paid him, don't until he offers the correct stuff

 

[telectrix]

if any new circuits have been installed, then an Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) is required. if it's just circuits altered, then you need a Minor Electrical Works Installation Certificate (MEWIC). in either case , also notification to building control, either through the spark's cps scheme or direct. a periodic ( EICR) is only required if you want the whole installation tested and inspected as safe for continued use. hope this clears it up.

 

[Kate]

The certification provided will only cover the work that has recently been completed. When/if you rent out the property you may need to provide certification that covers the whole property. The PIR certificate has now been replaced with the EICR certificate. Electrical Installation Condition Report.
It is your choice whether you want an EICR completed now or later, if you have rewire able fuses I'd definitely suggest a consumer unit upgrade and the electrician who does this would provide a certificate that would cover all of the electrics.
I couldn't comment on electrician prices in your area, but the en-suite supplier wouldn't be obliged to fix faults.

 

[robinsmith30]

Thank you Murdoch for your prompt response. I will look to ensure I have a

1. Minor Works Certification and have found some examples of what to expect (e.g. http://www.wmjoiner.co.uk/Download/4%20-%20Minor%20Works%20Certificate%2017th%20Edition%20BS7671.pdf)
2. LABC Notification Form

I have had a read about LABC and understand that [2] Since Part P was introduced, it has been a legal requirement for contractors to inform the relevant local authority of notifiable work. It also provides the householder with evidence that the work complies with building regulations, which is essential for house sales and conveyancing

I trust I also get a copy of a form. I’m struggling to find an example form for this so I know what to expect, but will try and do so.
Cheers,

Robin

 

[Octopus]

Why don't you email the sparky and check what he will be providing?

 

[Kate]

I think you would be very hard pushed to find an example of the form. It would state what work is covered, installation address and date. It acts as a form of insurance for any problems that could arise from the work done.

 

[robinsmith30]

Thanks guys,

I have yet to contact the overall Project Manager for the work. I think the electrician was sub-contracted, so I want to go armed with the right information before I contact them. I have yet to pay the final £400 for the job.

Based on what I have learned here I will state that:

1. I definitely need at least a Minor Electrical Works Certificate Installation (MEWIC)
2. I would definitely needs to get a LABC Notification Certificate
3. I think I need a full Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) also

With respect to the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) as the quote says “Electrician to supply and install new fuse spur in roof space for new shower” does the new spur constitute a new circuit (for which an EIC rather than MEWIC is needed, or can a spur be “circuits altered”?
I do appreciate I will need an full EICR for renting, and appreciate this covers the whole house, however before I pay the PM I want to ensure that nothing done in the en-suite would fail in the EICR.
Cheers,
Robin

 

[Octopus]

Thanks guys,

I have yet to contact the overall Project Manager for the work. I think the electrician was sub-contracted, so I want to go armed with the right information before I contact them. I have yet to pay the final £400 for the job.

Based on what I have learned here I will state that:

1. I definitely need at least a Minor Electrical Works Certificate Installation (MEWIC)
2. I would definitely needs to get a LABC Notification Certificate
3. I think I need a full Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) also

With respect to the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) as the quote says “Electrician to supply and install new fuse spur in roof space for new shower” does the new spur constitute a new circuit (for which an EIC rather than MEWIC is needed, or can a spur be “circuits altered”?
I do appreciate I will need an full EICR for renting, and appreciate this covers the whole house, however before I pay the PM I want to ensure that nothing done in the en-suite would fail in the EICR.
Cheers,
Robin

You may need 1 or 3 or possibly both. Good man for not paying up yet!

 

[Kate]

No! Some electricians do minor works, some do electrical installation. You would get one OR the other. And which ever you get would only cover the circuit that they have added to. I'm assuming the lighting circuit. If an EIC was issued it would state either alteration or addition.
If when it came to doing the EICR a fault was found to the work they had done in the en-suite, you can contact the electricians governing body, eg NICEIC, as they are insuring the work done.

 

[robinsmith30]

Thanks for the clarification of my misunderstanding Kate.

It is good to know I have re-assurance that if a fault was found to the work they had done in the en-suite, I can contact the electricians governing body, eg NICEIC, as they are insuring the work done

I will ask the PM what certification I will be receiving, but understand that it will be either a MEWIC or a EIC depending on the work done

I’m still a bit confused on LABC notification. Should I get a certificate myself for this, before I settle the bill? I did not provide the link to the following http://www.electricalportal.co.uk/electrical_article11258.html
which seems to imply that the householder (customer) gets some document evidence

Since Part P was introduced in 2005, it has been a legal requirement for contractors to inform the relevant local authority of notifiable work. It also provides the householder with evidence that the work complies with building regulations, which is essential for house sales and conveyancing. Plus it means the contractor can show a professional image to the customer by showing they comply with legal requirements. I will phone the PM later today armed with good information.

 

[Kate]

With the LABC notification, that's out of the electricians hands. He notifies the work online through his governing body, eg NICEIC, he gets either 21 or 28 days to do this, I forget which. Then when the electrician has done that the certificate gets issued. I personally have always selected that my LABC certificates to be dispatched straight to the customer so I'm unsure how long it would take to be posted to you. I wouldn't hold payment just for this one certificate. The minor works or electrical install certificate would have a completion date on it, so you can use that if the worst case scenario happened that you didn't receive your LABC certificate.

 

[Geoffsd]

Since Part P was introduced in 2005, it has been a legal requirement for contractors to inform the relevant local authority of notifiable work.

No, it is your responsibility.

Either by doing it yourself prior to the work starting or
by employing an electrician who can self certify.

 

[Kate]

I should also say. Some electricians hold onto test certificates until they receive payment. I personally do this as its my way of insuring that I get paid. I don't ever get up front payment for materials etc. if you find the electrician does this, tell him that if he brings the certificates to you personally you would write a cheque while he is there.

 

[Kate]

No, it is your responsibility.

Either by doing it yourself prior to the work starting or
by employing an electrician who can self certify.

I find this so confusing and I'm an electrician! I notify all my own works, and I've never come across a customer who hasn't expected me to.

Robin, ask the electrician if he will be notifying before the work starts.

 

[Des 56]

No, it is your responsibility.

Either by doing it yourself prior to the work starting or
by employing an electrician who can self certify.

Its the Householders responsibility for compliance with the building regulations

He may engage the services of a competent person who can self certificate that the work complies,but push comes to shove,its the householder

 

[Geoffsd]

Robin, ask the electrician if he will be notifying before the work starts.

If the electrician is registered with a scheme which allows self-certification then it is not necessary to notify until completion.

If the householder employs an electrician who is not registered (or wants to do it himself) then it must be notified prior to the work beginning.

This is, of course, now only applicable to new circuits, new consumer units and work within the zones of special locations, which I presume this work is.

However, all electrical work must comply with Part P and be certified - as opposed to notified, the two are not connected.