other trades

[Mike Blair]

ok so... 2 things i have seen

1: putting a toilet and a sink in the same room as the consumer unit.. room must of been 2 meter squire.. any one else think that's weird?

2: go to do a job adding some new leds..... i see the ring circuit clipped to the brick wall..then dot and dabbed with plaster board just stuck on over it??

 

[stevethesparks]

Both sound ok to me as long as the CU is at a reasonable height and ring wiring is within the safe zones.

 

[Des 56]

1.
It keeps all the sh-te in the same location but seems an excellent decision
2.
Its good to know its nicely supported,dangling loose is much less pleasing

What do you think should be done in both cases ?

 

[trev]

2 CPCs in the same bit of sleeving.
Idiots who cut cables stupidly short making retermination difficult.
Those things boil my wee (amongst many, many others)

 

[uksparks]

ok so... 2 things i have seen which kind of grinned my gears

1: putting a toilet and a sink in the same room as the consumer unit.. room must of been 2 meter squire.. any one else think that's weird?

2: go to do a job adding some new leds..... i see the ring circuit clipped to the brick wall..then dot and dabbed with plaster board just stuck on over it??

Nothing wrong with that, theres a brand new Charles church estate I'd done a bit of work on and all the consumer units are in the downstairs toilet above the sistern so you have to lean over the toilet to get to it, makes life awkward.

2. What's wrong with that?

 

[Mike Blair]

what if the toilet/sink over flows? and for sockets at least a bit of capping

 

[Des 56]

what if the toilet/sink over flows? and for sockets at least a bit of capping

what if the toilet/sink over flows?
If you can't fix the waterworks,maybe get a plumber

sockets at least a bit of capping
By all means.lots of people find it helpful to get the cables in position,do or don't do,whatever feels good

 

[uksparks]

If it overflows and manages to fill the room to the level of consumer unit I'd be shocked! You would probably be talking of 1500 litres of water or more.

it makes no odds of water goes on a socket, it can easily be replaced with a new one.

 

[uksparks]

Millions of houses have plasterboard and board adhesive on the cables...

 

[telectrix]

Nothing wrong with that, theres a brand new Charles church estate I'd done a bit of work on and all the consumer units are in the downstairs toilet above the sistern so you have to lean over the toilet to get to it, makes life awkward.

2. What's wrong with that?

it's when it's mounted up to ceiling so you have to stand on the bog to access it. several new build estates round here done like that.

 

[Des 56]

it's when it's mounted up to ceiling so you have to stand on the bog to access it. several new build estates round here done like that.

Tel,I reckon you've put your foot in it

 

[ian.settle1]

what if the toilet over flows?

There will be $hit and pi$$ everywhere

 

[telectrix]

what if the toilet/sink over flows?

that's why the CU is above the bog, not below it . DER!.

 

[Plonker 3]

what if the toilet/sink over flows? and for sockets at least a bit of capping

So you mount your DBs in the loft do you?

 

[Plonker 3]

So you mount your DBs in the loft do you?

Its the only was my local 5 a side centers DB would have survived this flood.

 

[Pete999]

what if the toilet/sink over flows? and for sockets at least a bit of capping

capping is there to protect during plastering isn't it? hardly going to get cut during dot and dabing

 

[uksparks]

it's when it's mounted up to ceiling so you have to stand on the bog to access it. several new build estates round here done like that.

I hate boards that are hard against the ceiling as you cant get your screwdriver in straight to the bar at the top half the time, having said that, the new Design 30 hager board, its a bit lower the rail.

 

[R G]

A notice on the bog door would be helpful..

"Dont Aim Too High"

 

[Welchyboy1]

Cant remember the last time i used flat capping!, cant remember the last time i see a plasterer bond a wall out either actually

 

[Welchyboy1]

ok so... 2 things i have seen which kind of grinned my gears

1: putting a toilet and a sink in the same room as the consumer unit.. room must of been 2 meter squire.. any one else think that's weird?

2: go to do a job adding some new leds..... i see the ring circuit clipped to the brick wall..then dot and dabbed with plaster board just stuck on over it??

Hope u havent been rubbishing the work to the homeowner!

just had a know it all 'sparky' from british gas telling a customer of mine the intruder alarm spur i fitted for him is 'illegal' because it had no rcd protection, even though it was in trunking!

THAT REALLY GRINDS MY GEARS!

 

[specs]

Cant remember the last time i used flat capping!, cant remember the last time i see a plasterer bond a wall out either actually

They use 'hardwall' these days, never the less you are spot on

 

[Plonker 3]

Hope u havent been rubbishing the work to the homeowner!

just had a know it all 'sparky' from british gas telling a customer of mine the intruder alarm spur i fitted for him is 'illegal' because it had no rcd protection, even though it was in trunking!

THAT REALLY GRINDS MY GEARS!

What was the earthing arrangement of the property?

 

[123]

Don't see what other trades have done wrong Mike?

I have a big gripe with a local plumber, he needs to retire! On one little kitchen refurb he managed to drill through cables 3 times. On another he managed to core a 4" hole through the cables when putting in his flue for Gas.

On a new build the plasterer shoved all the cables for pendants and smokies up, and plastered the ceiling. Floor now needs to be lifted above to find them. Same job, same plasterer, several flush boxes have been plastered over, will be fun finding them. And to clean out the boxes he's used a hammer and bolster. Lugs missing/damaged galore!

On a current restaurant install the gas man has kindly run his gas pipe parallel to kitchen lighting trunking, so close that 2nd fix isn't possible and the Klik roses need to change to the oher side.

On a Kitchen/Extension only one wire/conduit had to remain in the wall. Can you guess which one the builders hit yet?

 

[PEG]

Hope u havent been rubbishing the work to the homeowner!

just had a know it all 'sparky' from british gas telling a customer of mine the intruder alarm spur i fitted for him is 'illegal' because it had no rcd protection, even though it was in trunking!

THAT REALLY GRINDS MY GEARS!

...The ultimate in British blue-chip utility irony...they spent most of my life,telling everybody how dangerous it was to mix these two,then suddenly,they're inseparable...

 

[Geordie Spark]

ok so... 2 things i have seen

1: putting a toilet and a sink in the same room as the consumer unit.. room must of been 2 meter squire.. any one else think that's weird?

2: go to do a job adding some new leds..... i see the ring circuit clipped to the brick wall..then dot and dabbed with plaster board just stuck on over it??

I think a room 2 meter squire is VERY weird!!!!

2 metres square would be ok though.

 

[Deleted account]

Hope u havent been rubbishing the work to the homeowner!

just had a know it all 'sparky' from british gas telling a customer of mine the intruder alarm spur i fitted for him is 'illegal' because it had no rcd protection, even though it was in trunking!

THAT REALLY GRINDS MY GEARS!

Don't all power outlets up to 20A fitted now have to be RCD protected in the new 17th 2015

 

[jonny705]

Regarding British Gas electricians, I was asked by mate if I would take a look at his Mums Garage as lights were flickering randomly.

As with a lot of older people she had signed up for their 'maintenance program', as they still see British Gas , BT etc. as basically a British institution ( which is what they play on) and totally trust them.

It was an old Garage with an Apex roof and had a 'loft' as such which the cables came in.

When I shined the torch I could see shiny copper glinting at me!

Rodents had chewed through loads of the cable never seen nothing quite like that,

the British gas guy had just chocked/taped loads of the cuts up , because it was an awkward space to work in , and I guess could not be arsed to do it!

Strangest thing was, there were no dead/fried rats?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Regarding British Gas electricians, I was asked by mate if I would take a look at his Mums Garage as lights were flickering randomly.

As with a lot of older people she had signed up for their 'maintenance program', as they still see British Gas , BT etc. as basically a British institution ( which is what they play on) and totally trust them.

It was an old Garage with an Apex roof and had a 'loft' as such which the cables came in.

When I shined the torch I could see shiny copper glinting at me!

Rodents had chewed through loads of the cable never seen nothing quite like that,

the British gas guy had just chocked/taped loads of the cuts up , because it was an awkward space to work in , and I guess could not be arsed to do it!

Strangest thing was, there were no dead/fried rats?

......... or dead/fried B.G. "electricians".

 

[telectrix]

......... or dead/fried B.G. "electricians".

wishfull thinking there, geordie.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Don't all power outlets up to 20A fitted now have to be RCD protected in the new 17th 2015

Do they?

 

[Deleted account]

Do they?

Haven't read all the new 17th 2015, but have attended a couple of seminars and they did stipulate any power outlet up to 20amps now needs to be rcd protected unless good reason can be given and a risk assessment has been carried out.
I will have a look though the new 17th later after I've had my t.

 

[andyb]

Don't all power outlets up to 20A fitted now have to be RCD protected in the new 17th 2015

No, socket outlets.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Do they?

There is now a requirement for RCD protection for socket-outlets up to 20A for all installations. Exceptions are permitted for a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment or where other than for an installation in a dwelling, a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Haven't read all the new 17th 2015, but have attended a couple of seminars and they did stipulate any power outlet up to 20amps now needs to be rcd protected unless good reason can be given and a risk assessment has been carried out.
I will have a look though the new 17th later after I've had my t.

So not alarm spurs with surface mounted cabling like in my post then

 

[Welchyboy1]

.......

 

[telectrix]

So not alarm spurs with surface mounted cabling like in my post then

there is no reqiurement in BS7671 for FCUs to have RCD protection. only if the cable is buried in wall<50mm, does 522.6.101 apply.

 

[Geordie Spark]

2 CPCs in the same bit of sleeving.
Idiots who cut cables stupidly short making retermination difficult.
Those things boil my wee (amongst many, many others)

Mackems?? :angel_smile:

 

[Geordie Spark]

it's when it's mounted up to ceiling so you have to stand on the bog to access it. several new build estates round here done like that.

You're only bitching about it because of the time you slipped and got your foot stuck down the bog.

Clumsy sod!! ...:frown2:

 

[Des 56]

.......

Go on Welchyboy,let the frustration out,the odd swear word may be justified in this instance

 

[Deleted account]

So not alarm spurs with surface mounted cabling like in my post then

If the Spur has come of a ring or radial with 13A sockets it will need to be RCD protected because you have altered or added on to an existing circuit thus you need to bring the whole circuit up to current regs.

411.3.3 (I)gives you al the info you need

please note there are ecseptions to this. If you have a good reason why the circuit should not be RCD protected and have carried out a risk assesment.

however the definition of a good reason is debatable.

In in a dwelling risk assessments are not permitted therefore exclusion of RCD's are not accepted for this reason.

another exception is a suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment. So this may be your exemption on the alarm. However if there are other 13a sockets on that circuit it will need to be RCD protected.

 

[Plonker 3]

If the Spur has come of a ring or radial with 13A sockets it will need to be RCD protected because you have altered or added on to an existing circuit thus you need to bring the whole circuit up to current regs.

411.3.3 (I)gives you al the info you need

please note there are ecseptions to this. If you have a good reason why the circuit should not be RCD protected and have carried out a risk assesment.

however the definition of a good reason is debatable.

In in a dwelling risk assessments are not permitted therefore exclusion of RCD's are not accepted for this reason.

another exception is a suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment. So this may be your exemption on the alarm. However if there are other 13a sockets on that circuit it will need to be RCD protected.

Why does the whole circuit need RCD/RCBO protection?

 

[telectrix]

If the Spur has come of a ring or radial with 13A sockets it will need to be RCD protected because you have altered or added on to an existing circuit thus you need to bring the whole circuit up to current regs.

411.3.3 (I)gives you al the info you need

please note there are ecseptions to this. If you have a good reason why the circuit should not be RCD protected and have carried out a risk assesment.

however the definition of a good reason is debatable.

In in a dwelling risk assessments are not permitted therefore exclusion of RCD's are not accepted for this reason.

another exception is a suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment. So this may be your exemption on the alarm. However if there are other 13a sockets on that circuit it will need to be RCD protected.

i disagree. by adding a FCU to a non-RCD socket circuit, you are not leaving the circuit less safer than before. you could add a RCD socket and still leave the rest of the circuit without RCD protection.

 

[Deleted account]

i disagree. by adding a FCU to a non-RCD socket circuit, you are not leaving the circuit less safer than before. you could add a RCD socket and still leave the rest of the circuit without RCD protection.

I accept you are quite correct, but my understanding is that if you alter or add to a circuit you have to bring up to current regs. Am I wrong?

 

[telectrix]

you need to ensure that the circuit is safe for continued use ( including checking earthing/bonding and fixing if reqd.). it's the addition that you do that needs to be to current regs.

 

[Deleted account]

you need to ensure that the circuit is safe for continued use ( including checking earthing/bonding and fixing if reqd.). it's the addition that you do that needs to be to current regs.

That's not the way I have interpreted or worked to the regs in the past. I have to admit your way would be a bit more easier and desirable. I would be interested if any one else interprets it your way or mine. Would be nice if I'm wrong.

 

[Andy78]

That's not the way I have interpreted or worked to the regs in the past. I have to admit your way would be a bit more easier and desirable. I would be interested if any one else interprets it your way or mine. Would be nice if I'm wrong.

Tel's way, as it is correct.

 

[Geordie Spark]

That's not the way I have interpreted or worked to the regs in the past. I have to admit your way would be a bit more easier and desirable. I would be interested if any one else interprets it your way or mine. Would be nice if I'm wrong.

You should be feeling very happy now!

 

[Pete999]

If the Spur has come of a ring or radial with 13A sockets it will need to be RCD protected because you have altered or added on to an existing circuit thus you need to bring the whole circuit up to current regs.

411.3.3 (I)gives you al the info you need

please note there are ecseptions to this. If you have a good reason why the circuit should not be RCD protected and have carried out a risk assesment.

however the definition of a good reason is debatable.

In in a dwelling risk assessments are not permitted therefore exclusion of RCD's are not accepted for this reason.

another exception is a suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment. So this may be your exemption on the alarm. However if there are other 13a sockets on that circuit it will need to be RCD protected.

Thonk you will find it's only the new work that has to be RCD protected, for example a spur from an existing RFC which is not RCD protected, should be protected ie an rcd fcu

 

[Deleted account]

You should be feeling very happy now!

Extatic!:clap:

..........................

 

[Leesparkykent]

Tel's way, If you spur of an existing ring final circuit for say a switched fused spur and the installation method of the addition doesn't require RCD protection.