Recommendations for electric heating and hot water system required

[Pigletty]

We've just bought a cottage to renovate and are looking at heating/water heating options. We have an electric supply (no mains gas and no space for oil/gas tank, similarly no space for anything like a heat pump). The current supply is max 60A.

We're thinking in-screed underfloor heating downstairs (the house has flagstones floors which will be coming up to allow insulation and DPC to be fitted, before re-laying the flags) with electric radiators of some description upstairs.

For water heating we're considering either an instantaneous boiler to supply both the shower and two sinks (one bathroom, one kitchen), or an electric shower with separate undersink heaters for the water. It won't be lived in all of the time so we won't have a bath or any real need for a tanked hot water supply.

Any thoughts/comments/criticisms/better ideas? Any recommendations for specific radiators/water heaters we should be looking at?

 

[malcolmsanford]

With all the advances in electrical heating IMO still the most cost effective would be night storage heaters as you are utilizing off peak rates and with new technology some of these units are very good.

As you are going to re-lay the flags I would recommend UFH for them. My kitchen and conservatory at home is tiled and even a small low load system makes a great difference.

It's a pity your not thinking about water storage as you could have utilized solar thermal for your water heating but they requires storage.

 

[Pigletty]

With all the advances in electrical heating IMO still the most cost effective would be night storage heaters as you are utilizing off peak rates and with new technology some of these units are very good.

Thanks - I'd discounted storage heaters as I have bad memories of them from around 20 years ago. Do you have any specific recommendations of makes/models to look at?

We would like solar panels, but unfortunately it's in a conservation area and I think it's a no go.

Any thoughts on electric water heating?

 

[thefish]

Storage heaters in general are very good and have come along way in 20 years. However, before jumping in to buying them consider these thoughts. 1) inital outlay for storage heaters is high. 2) You have to have an off peak electricity meter installed to make them worth while. You will have to pay for this and you will then pay a higher standing rate charge. The electicity you use off peak will be at a lower rate but the normal rate tariff will be higher than someone not on econmy 7 or similar scheme. If you are only installing heaters upstairs I would think that the storage heaters would not be worth while. 3) storage heaters are not flexible - you have to know the night before that you want them on the next day. Electric panel heaters have come along way too have a look at Rointe, Creda and Dimplex. Just my thoughts...

 

[Pigletty]

Electric panel heaters have come along way too have a look at Rointe, Creda and Dimplex. Just my thoughts...

Thanks - that was my thinking too - it's basically only be panel radiators in two bedrooms, so seems a lot of hassle to go with storage heaters.

Will look at the models you suggested. Have you come across The Electric Radiator Company? Their website is quite persuasive, but I've never heard of them before!

 

[thefish]

Yes their website looks very good along with their suggestions/ products. I'm not convinced though, you basically get out of an electric heater what you put in, so a 1KW output needs a 1KW supply. So with that in mind I'm not sure that their products could be more efficient than others? Maybe they hold on to the heat longer or radiate it more efectively?

 

[telectrix]

for your UFH, make sure you fit the insulation tiles under the heating elements. they will make quite a difference to the efficiencey. you don't want to go warming the moles' tunnels.

 

[JD Hogg]

I think in your circumstances the best option is to go for the electric panel rads, Rointe come highly recommended but are quite expensive. One thing you should bear in mind is that UFH is not very controllable especially over flagstones and you would need at least 50mm (probably 75mm) of Celotex type insulation and 200w of heat per sq metre so depending on the size of the house and your hot water/cooking etc load this could be too much for your 60A supply.

The other thing to consider is a wood pellet boiler/heater.

 

[BroadReach]

Would a log burner or similar in main living area backed up with electric heaters upstairs be an option?

 

[Pigletty]

Would a log burner or similar in main living area backed up with electric heaters upstairs be an option?

That's the plan - UFH downstairs to provide basic background heat, with a log burner to give cosy heat.

My main problem is figuring out all of the possible options for electric heaters and possibilities for hot water heating. Panel radiators upstairs are looking most probable, but I can't decide on which makes to concentrate on.

Hot water is even more confusing - I guess there aren't many people who just want instantaneous hot water as I can't find any reviews from anyone who relies on it for showers as well as just sinks.

 

[JD Hogg]

How about a 6 kW electric boiler feeding central heating radiators (wet system) and a mains pressure hot water cylinder either direct(heated by immersion heater) or indirect (heated from the boiler). This way you get fully controllable system, mains pressure hot water and no need to bother about instantaneous water heater/showers.

 

[somersetsparks]

Just throwing it out there, but as you are having underfloor heating, look up mitsubishi ecodan air source heating, it is a wet system and really just replaces 'the boiler' of a traditional heating system, I have installed a few of them (well wired) and I can really reccommend them, They work out about 3 times as cheap to run as a combi boiler and are ideally suited to underfloor heating, outlay probably isnt much more then a house load of storage heaters, and it will save you a lot compared to them.

In my opinion, storage heating is going out with the ark, and many local authorities are planning big heating projects to ditch them soon.

Forgot to mention - the only downside is having a girt air con unit in your back garden! however you can put a fence around them and they not noisy

 

[Pigletty]

In reply to JD Hogg:

I'd not really considered this. Is 6kW really enough to heat a whole house (albeit a small one!) and hot water? that's less powerful than the showers I was looking at!!

 

[Pigletty]

Forgot to mention - the only downside is having a girt air con unit in your back garden! however you can put a fence around them and they not noisy

Sadly that's the problem - no garden. Also no storage for things like fuel pellets, so we're really restricted to something which will go inside the house and preferably not take up too much room

 

[somersetsparks]

Sadly that's the problem - no garden. Also no storage for things like fuel pellets, so we're really restricted to something which will go inside the house and preferably not take up too much room

In that case, I would probably go with good panel heaters, or electric underfloor heating, possibly on economy 7 tariff, as you can use them flagstones like a night storage heater.

 

[Pigletty]

In that case, I would probably go with good panel heaters

Which brands would you recommend?

 

[somersetsparks]

Well I would say Dimplex or Creda as thats what I know and I know they are good, I wouldn't go with rointe as to my mind they seem like a scam, however I have no experience of them.

 

[JD Hogg]

In reply to JD Hogg:

I'd not really considered this. Is 6kW really enough to heat a whole house (albeit a small one!) and hot water? that's less powerful than the showers I was looking at!!

The 6kW boiler could well be enough but the best thing to do would be to carry out a heat loss calculation on the property. The thing about the hot water storage cylinder is the fact that you are heating a lot of water over a relatively long period of time as opposed to a shower where you are heating the water instantaneously and therefore need a much bigger power input.

 

[drew35]

With the heat loss from a cottage I would have thought storage heaters would be the best way forward. Get an economy ten meter fitted so you get a better spread of heating day and night. Depending on the size of the cottage you may only need one downstairs and one up.

And an electric shower with two under sink heaters and you're only heating the water you need.

If you also use showers etc when the electricity is on the low tariff you save even more. Panels heaters would cost a fortune to heat an old cottage, you need constant top up heat.

Try the Elnur range from TLC, these are delivered free of charge, and I've fitted quite a few. A storage heater will probably last you a decade at least, maybe two!

Economy ten is currently cheap rate from 01:00-06:00, 14:00-17:00, 21:00-23:00