UK Regs vs BMW

[Rowan Mitchell]

So I am getting an external socket fitted for a tenant to charge her electrical car. She is adamant that all that is required is an outdoor socket (waterproof presumably) even though i have had an electrician round who says it needs a seperate earth rod and dedicated rcd.

I think the confusion stems from the wording of section 722.1 The requirements of this do not apply to electric vehicle charging points that (ii) charge mobility scooter and similar vehicles of 10A or less.

Clearly BMW think that this applies their 5 seat 0-60 in 6 second "mobility scooters" seeing as they have reduced the amperage of their uk chargers to 10A presumably in response to precisely this.

So my question is, is there a definitive answer to this or best practice?

 

[James]

If she wants an external socket, it must meet the requirements for an outdoor socket.

If she wants a car charger installed, there are specific regs for them to meet.

The two might seem similar but are in fact different.

 

[Lister1987]

Get a Zappi on the wall, what it costs in £, will be made up for by it being done properly and to code. Any other approach would be more arsing about and end cost will likely be in the same ballpark as a Zappi (factoring n potential fallouts for a melted outdoor socket, getting tingles off the car etc

 

[James]

So this is a car with a 7kwh battery, it will be charged from empty to full in about 3 hours from a 10A built in charger. Plugged into a normal outdoor socket.

There is little to no point in installing a bigger charging point.

 

[telectrix]

There is little to no point in installing a bigger charging point.

Point taken

 

[snowhead]

First thing to note is the 330e is not an E.V, it's a plug in Hybrid.
On battery alone it's got a 30 mile real world range according to the reviews.
On fuel it's range is 350 to 400 miles.

If there was such a thing as the Outdoor socket Police, then any attempt to prosecute for use of an outdoor socket for charging a BMW 330e or any other Plug in Hybrid would fail if it was based on the wording in the Regs which specificaly states E.V

(Snipped from J.W's Youtube video)

BMW are not trying to get around the issue as they mention faster charging and charging leads.

 

[Phil L]

I previously had the BMW 330e and a domestic outdoor socket was all that was needed to charge it, we did however have a EV charger at the office, at best they will get 20 miles from the charge and it will take roughly 5-7 hours to charge from empty on the domestic socket, 2-3 hours in an EV charger

 

[Strima]

My take on this is the tenant has asked for an outdoor socket, it's use is irrelevant.

If a cable is fitted with a 13 amp plug people will just use any random socket whether it's designed for EV charging or not, it's human nature.

IMHO this subject is overly complicated, all chargers should have built in broken PEN detection, but that would be too easy wouldn't it.

 

[Lister1987]

I don't like the idea of using a standard 1363 plug and socket to charge a car. The likes of JW and the rest of the E5 group have highlighted the issues a(with the car manufacturers given zero ----s about suitability of the 1363 and implications of you use a standard plug, as opposed to a dedicated charge lead/plug/socket. Best thing to do with the 1363 charging pleads to convert to Ceeform, at least it's an improvement but by no means perfect.

 

[UNG]

I don't like the idea of using a standard 1363 plug and socket to charge a car. The likes of JW and the rest of the E5 group have highlighted the issues a(with the car manufacturers given zero ----s about suitability of the 1363 and implications of you use a standard plug, as opposed to a dedicated charge lead/plug/socket. Best thing to do with the 1363 charging pleads to convert to Ceeform, at least it's an improvement but by no means perfect.

Why try to solve what you consider a problem and potentially create another with dodgy hybrid extension leads
Domestic properties have had BS1363 outdoor sockets fitted for many years which have been used to supply various types of electrical equipment so why not a hybrid electric vehicle it's not like it is going to overload the outlet

 

[Lister1987]

Why try to solve what you consider a problem and potentially create another with dodgy hybrid extension leads
Domestic properties have had BS1363 outdoor sockets fitted for many years which have been used to supply various types of electrical equipment so why not a hybrid electric vehicle it's not like it is going to overload the outlet

Lazy-Spa hot tubs come to mind here, it is entirely possible (and has happened I believe) that an electric vehicle charging by a 13A plug has melted the socket and failed, we *know* this happens with inflatable hot tubs.

 

[DPG]

Lazy-Spa hot tubs come to mind here, it is entirely possible (and has happened I believe) that an electric vehicle charging by a 13A plug has melted the socket and failed, we *know* this happens with inflatable hot tubs.

But it is also fairly common to see sockets damaged that have been used for washing machines/tumble dryers.

A device that is fitted with a 13A plug should be safe to use with a standard (but good quality) 13A socket.

 

[UNG]

Lazy-Spa hot tubs come to mind here, it is entirely possible (and has happened I believe) that an electric vehicle charging by a 13A plug has melted the socket and failed, we *know* this happens with inflatable hot tubs.

So you are basing your argument / comment on some unconfirmed hearsay regarding EV charging

In a lot of cases the "forensic" analysis of a failure can glean a lot of information as to the cause depending on the skill of the electrician attending to the fault, while it is easier to blame the failure on the plug and socket arrangement there may be other underlying issues within the circuit that have caused the failure of the plug and / or socket.

I'm always very cautious with moulded plug tops which when they first appeared on the market were prone to manufacturing issues with regard to termination of the cable within the moulding and misaligned pins, in the early 80's there was a HTM issued banning there use and I spent a couple of weeks going round all the local health authority premises replacing all the moulded plugs with MK 655 toughplugs

There must be 100's of millions of BS1363 plugs and sockets in use and I would suggest the failure rate is infinitesimally small for you to suggest that they are a problem