Smoke alarms for community hall

[Octopus]

Hi,

I've been asked if I want to quote for installing fire/smoke/heat alarms in a local community hall which has several rooms and quite a high "domed" ceiling in the main room.

Having not done anything like this before would any members like to give me their thoughts/and/or guidance on such a solution.....


Thanks

 

[alarm man]

i would say no on design,get someone to design it and you install it both earn something that way as a shame to throw away work..

 

[accordfire]

Hi,

I've been asked if I want to quote for installing fire/smoke/heat alarms in a local community hall which has several rooms and quite a high "domed" ceiling in the main room.

Having not done anything like this before would any members like to give me their thoughts/and/or guidance on such a solution.....


Thanks

Woah!

If it's a community hall - i.e. where public gather to do activities, etc - then it is first and foremost subject to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order:2005, and MUST have a current valid fire risk assessment in place.

For you, this means a minimum specification will have been identified and set for any electronic fire detection (as well as for other fire measures, such as extinguishers, blankets, etc.).

Primarily, this means (and is most likely the case) that you will have a document, signed off by an expert (hopefully) who will have defined the grade and category to which the fire detection needs to comply, and to be honest, if this isn't in place, I'd throw it back at whoever asked you, and tell them to comply with the law first - that risk assessment is a LEGAL requirement.

Most likely, and without seeing the property, you'll be looking at a system which needs to comply with BS5839-1:2008. In other words, not smoke detectors in the sense of what you'd install at home. In all probability if the building is only occupied part time, and isn't attached, or posing risk to other premises, the requirement will probably be for an L2 or L3 system design.

Now, you've mentioned high domed ceilings too - those are subject to different spacing rules over the standard spacing set out - normally by reducing the distance by an amount for every so many degrees of pitch the ceiling rises. Any obstruction on the ceiling which is over 10% of the height of the room at any point will also need to be considered.

Given all this - and with all respect, it isn't something you want to "play" with - the penalties for getting it wrong hurt, and include prison if it all goes horribly wrong. Get a professional in to at least design the system (and if necessary carry out the risk assessment) - and play safe. If you're looking for a good fire company in Surrey......by the way

As Alarm Man says - collaboration is probably your best bet - get someone with experience..... to at least do the design, and commissioning....and guide you on install if necessary.

 

[accordfire]

Hi,

I've been asked if I want to quote for installing fire/smoke/heat alarms in a local community hall which has several rooms and quite a high "domed" ceiling in the main room.

Having not done anything like this before would any members like to give me their thoughts/and/or guidance on such a solution.....


Thanks

Woah!

If it's a community hall - i.e. where public gather to do activities, etc - then it is first and foremost subject to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order:2005, and MUST have a current valid fire risk assessment in place.

For you, this means a minimum specification will have been identified and set for any electronic fire detection (as well as for other fire measures, such as extinguishers, blankets, etc.).

Primarily, this means (and is most likely the case) that you will have a document, signed off by an expert (hopefully) who will have defined the grade and category to which the fire detection needs to comply, and to be honest, if this isn't in place, I'd throw it back at whoever asked you, and tell them to comply with the law first - that risk assessment is a LEGAL requirement.

Most likely, and without seeing the property, you'll be looking at a system which needs to comply with BS5839-1:2008. In other words, not smoke detectors in the sense of what you'd install at home. In all probability if the building is only occupied part time, and isn't attached, or posing risk to other premises, the requirement will probably be for an L2 or L3 system design.

Now, you've mentioned high domed ceilings too - those are subject to different spacing rules over the standard spacing set out - normally by reducing the distance by an amount for every so many degrees of pitch the ceiling rises. Any obstruction on the ceiling which is over 10% of the height of the room at any point will also need to be considered.

Given all this - and with all respect, it isn't something you want to "play" with - the penalties for getting it wrong hurt, and include prison if it all goes horribly wrong. Get a professional in to at least design the system (and if necessary carry out the risk assessment) - and play safe. If you're looking for a good fire company in Surrey......by the way

As Alarm Man says - collaboration is probably your best bet - get someone with experience..... to at least do the design, and commissioning....and guide you on install if necessary.

 

[accordfire]

Apologies for double post - net not playing nice!

 

[i=p/u]

So how much would it cost to design a system bill??? Rough idea,and do assessment?

Caps off now.

 

[accordfire]

So how much would it cost to design a system bill??? Rough idea,and do assessment?

Caps off now.

Realistically, risk assessment we do from £250 plus VAT - which is fully BS9999 compliant, and include a written report, fire action plan, and associated material. A typical assessment will take up to four hours on site plus compilation time for the report (plus, it passes some risk in fire safety from you to us).

System design - depends on size and complexity of requirements, number of site visits needed, meetings to attend, design time, and so on - but for a small system such as described above, would be probably around the £200 plus VAT mark - and again, passes risk in design from you to us, which is probably the critical bit, aside from ongoing maintenance records - well, commissioning is important too.

Again - prices are guide, negotiable depending on scope of it all, and a better idea of actual requirements

 

[High Tower]

Woah!

If it's a community hall - i.e. where public gather to do activities, etc - then it is first and foremost subject to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order:2005, and MUST have a current valid fire risk assessment in place.

For you, this means a minimum specification will have been identified and set for any electronic fire detection (as well as for other fire measures, such as extinguishers, blankets, etc.).

Primarily, this means (and is most likely the case) that you will have a document, signed off by an expert (hopefully) who will have defined the grade and category to which the fire detection needs to comply, and to be honest, if this isn't in place, I'd throw it back at whoever asked you, and tell them to comply with the law first - that risk assessment is a LEGAL requirement.

Most likely, and without seeing the property, you'll be looking at a system which needs to comply with BS5839-1:2008. In other words, not smoke detectors in the sense of what you'd install at home. In all probability if the building is only occupied part time, and isn't attached, or posing risk to other premises, the requirement will probably be for an L2 or L3 system design.

Now, you've mentioned high domed ceilings too - those are subject to different spacing rules over the standard spacing set out - normally by reducing the distance by an amount for every so many degrees of pitch the ceiling rises. Any obstruction on the ceiling which is over 10% of the height of the room at any point will also need to be considered.

Given all this - and with all respect, it isn't something you want to "play" with - the penalties for getting it wrong hurt, and include prison if it all goes horribly wrong. Get a professional in to at least design the system (and if necessary carry out the risk assessment) - and play safe. If you're looking for a good fire company in Surrey......by the way

As Alarm Man says - collaboration is probably your best bet - get someone with experience..... to at least do the design, and commissioning....and guide you on install if necessary.

Hes Back!!!

 

[Octopus]

Realistically, risk assessment we do from £250 plus VAT - which is fully BS9999 compliant, and include a written report, fire action plan, and associated material. A typical assessment will take up to four hours on site plus compilation time for the report (plus, it passes some risk in fire safety from you to us).

System design - depends on size and complexity of requirements, number of site visits needed, meetings to attend, design time, and so on - but for a small system such as described above, would be probably around the £200 plus VAT mark - and again, passes risk in design from you to us, which is probably the critical bit, aside from ongoing maintenance records - well, commissioning is important too.

Again - prices are guide, negotiable depending on scope of it all, and a better idea of actual requirements

Would you be interested in working with me on this?

 

[telectrix]

Would you be interested in working with me on this?

you won't find anyone better than Bill for this one , mate.

 

[Paul.M]

Would you be interested in working with me on this?

Murdoch, contact Bill via his business details at the bottom of his posts. He's a nice man and as above one of the best in the trade, give him a call.

 

[i=p/u]

if ou rang the fire brigade, would they do survey for free...??? i know they can do some stuff

 

[Paul.M]

if ou rang the fire brigade, would they do survey for free...??? i know they can do some stuff

The fire service will not design a fire alarm system or take responsibility for the safety of the building. They will ensure that escape routes are adequate for the flc of people that could be in the building at the time of an evacuation, the amount, type and placement of extinguishers and also the storage of flammable/toxic vapour releasing fumes, fire doors. They do a great job but not to the extent of designing a fire detection system.

 

[accordfire]

Thanks Paul

 

[accordfire]

if ou rang the fire brigade, would they do survey for free...??? i know they can do some stuff

Most likely they'll give you a prohibition notice until you get one fitted.....

 

[accordfire]

Would you be interested in working with me on this?

Hi Murdoch - yes, very happy to - PM me your details and I'll give you a call a bit later (got to pop out to a customer shortly)....

 

[Paul.M]

Thanks Paul

Ipu makes a good point but not for the purpose of fitting a system. Again the fire service do brilliant work on fire prevention, I have 2 mates in the service and I know what they go through. I have nothing but respect for them.

 

[accordfire]

Ipu makes a good point but not for the purpose of fitting a system. Again the fire service do brilliant work on fire prevention, I have 2 mates in the service and I know what they go through. I have nothing but respect for them.

He does, and they are a great source of advice on a consultant basis - we often get the local brigade involved on more complex work, to ensure they're happy that what we've proposed will meet their expectation.

We also do a fair amount of PN work - and again, talking to the Brigade is always the best solution to getting it lifted fast.

I had a little one not long ago - Grade 2 listed tea room, 300 year old building, no fire detection, no escape planning, various other bits.

Prohibition paperwork stated no trading until full compliance reached - we talked to the SFO, and got that reduced to smoke detectors fitted (radiolink), supply and install four extinguishers, and do the rest on a six month plan. They were open for business again that night.

Just for the record, the Brigade COULD have brought a prosecution on top of the PN - for negligence and failure to comply with the RR(FS)O....it is not the case that they are only prosecuting where injury or death has occurred.

They are an amazing service, more, given how stretched most regions are - and they do still give a great deal of help.

 

[topquark]

Hes Back!!!

He is. In case you haven't noticed Bill, you've been missed!!!