Still worthwhile?

[FB.]

its about the terrible things we're doing to the planet and the ways we can help to make sure there's still a planet humans can live on.....
it's a moral imperative!

I agree.
But try telling that to the "superpowers" of the world. Even if everyone in the UK was as "green" as possible, it would not have much effect.

In fairness, I (we) try hard not to waste anything (not that I'm a hoarder). But, truly, on the rare occasion when we throw food away because it's "gone off" I spare a thought for people in other nations who would have walked miles for such food.

I grow a lot of my own - and have spent a lot of time perfecting the art of getting good yields of fruit and veg without chemicals. All of my "fertiliser" is actually compost and manure from a local household waste/recycling centre. Plus composting kitchen waste, lawn mowings and tree prunings - and even using urine as a quick fertiliser booster (shock, horror, disgust!).
Non-soapy rinsings from bowls, remains from the bottom of tea/coffee cups and all kinds of liqud waste go into a waste bucket (rather than down the sink) and used on the garden - give moisture and additional nutrients to the garden and veg plot. I also have 1000 litres of rainwater capacity in five water-butts attached to my garage.

I think you'll find that I'm well up there with the best "green" habits. Greener than many self-proclaimed "Greens", I'd bet.
But not that I'm a "tree hugger" by an means. No chance.

My approach is more one of: "Can I make an eco-conscious change to my way of life, with a minimal inconvenience once I've got used to it?"
It's surprising what can be done - if you really want to.

 

[Vegelen]

"is it worthwhile?" isn't about money, its about the terrible things we're doing to the planet and the ways we can help to make sure there's still a planet humans can live on.

Is it?

I'm sat here wondering how Solar Pv, will prevent the Amazonian rainforests from being

chopped down, the seas from being over fished, poachers shooting beautiful animals for

furs, tusks and Chinese medicines, vast palm plantations planted unecessarily to create

palm oil, wars fought worldwide for natural resources etc.

Lots of bad things are happening on this planet, which are caused by greed and have

little to do with anything else.

Lack of education, employment opportunities, political corruption, overpopulation, lack of

food, water, disease, ignorance, greed - these are many of the "real issues".

Solar PV is one of many technologies to help reduce the amount of energy we use.

Using better heating, cooling and lighting technologies, insulation, and more energy

efficient appliances are effective ways to reduce future consumption.

Consequentially leading to lower household bills and a better quality of life.

If your house is warmer in winter and costs less to run, people are less likely to get ill and

more likely to be productive.

The Green political movement attempts to subvert a lifestyle choice into a political

movement / argument to control the behaviour of others, just like any other political or

relgious entity.

Forcing people to change the way they live via subverted political movements,

isnt the way to encourage people to strive to live better lives.

 

[Gavin A]

would you like salt and vinegar with that chip you've got on your shoulder Vegelen?

 

[Vegelen]

would you like salt and vinegar with that chip you've got on your shoulder Vegelen?

I prefer Cheese and Onion, Salt and Vinegar is too acidic and salty.

 

[balbecdaze]

Impressed with your cultivation FB, I wee in the compost bin too!

 

[FB.]

Impressed with your cultivation FB, I wee in the compost bin too!

Manure, compost and urine are much better than synthetic fertilisers anyway because they add a variety of extra's to the soil, such as: slower-release and less easily washed from the soil, essential trace elements not present in NPK, moisture and nutrient-holding capacity from the humus, improvement soil structure and encourage a whole eco-system of useful bugs, grubs, fungi and bacteria - just the way mother nature had always intended it to be.

I once worked for a disease lab and a long time ago and (going from distant memory) there was an outbreak of Hepatitis A in the community. The source was traced to a market stall, selling raspberries which had been fertilised with human urine, which has splashed onto the fruits. The owner of the stall tested positive for hepatitis A. Had it not been splashed onto the fruits there would have been no risk as it would not have been carried up in the sap from the roots of the plants; Hep-A doesn't infect plants.

 

[sambotc]

Manure, compost and urine are much better than synthetic fertilisers anyway because they add a variety of extra's to the soil, such as: slower-release and less easily washed from the soil, essential trace elements not present in NPK, moisture and nutrient-holding capacity from the humus, improvement soil structure and encourage a whole eco-system of useful bugs, grubs, fungi and bacteria - just the way mother nature had always intended it to be.

I once worked for a disease lab and a long time ago and (going from distant memory) there was an outbreak of Hepatitis A in the community. The source was traced to a market stall, selling raspberries which had been fertilised with human urine, which has splashed onto the fruits. The owner of the stall tested positive for hepatitis A. Had it not been splashed onto the fruits there would have been no risk as it would not have been carried up in the sap from the roots of the plants; Hep-A doesn't infect plants.

With stories like that, it's no wonder people prefer to shop at tescos...

 

[balbecdaze]

I'd like to respond to Vegelen's comments, because its the sort of thing I think too - what's the point of making my little corner of the globe less damaging when the big picture is far far bigger than the 15 trees (woo!) and counting that PVOutput tells me I've been equivalent to in the last 6 weeks. The thing I think is we're all headed to hell in a handcart and I can't stop that. However if I were to imagine a future in which we weren't all doomed it would include not burning fossil fuels to make light and stuff - how mad is that? I know, I'll just dig up my planet so I can boil this kettle! So although me greening up isn't going to change anything, the only thing that will change things is if we all green up and in order for that to happen I need to green up too.

I am a naive fool mind. And I suspect Vegelen's being a bit Devils Advocate. And I don't like being told what to do either.

Sorry for hijacking the thread! (PV is still financially worthwhile!)

 

[Gavin A]

The way I tend to view it is that individually we can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

Choose to be part of the solution, and others will see what you're doing and follow suit without any need to preach, both on an individual and a national level.

On a national level Germany is blazing the trail and proving the naysayers wrong - it used to be thought that anything above 20% renewables penetration on the grid was impossible, but Germany is now proving this wrong, and other countries are then able to follow suit because they can now prove it can be done. I'm sure there were a lot of people in Germany saying 'why should we do this while China's building huge numbers of coal plants' but by taking the lead the Germans have now helped get China to the situation where they're now implementing a massive internal renewables programme, and globally we're hopefully now starting to turn the corner.

There are 7 billion people on the planet, so on an individual level any one person can only hope to possibly influence a minute proportion of those people, so in general individually I'd say stop worrying about what others are doing until you've sorted your own act out.

Once you've sorted your own act out you won't need to preach anyway because enough people will be approaching you for advice, to ask your experience etc.

I used to be a bit guilty of preaching without practicing it, and that was never going to work for persuading people individually. At the same time though it was necessary to help get us to the point where we actually have permission to connect renewables to the grid, where planning permission isn't required, and where the financial incentives can be in place to kick start the entire thing properly.

I also think it's worth not worrying about perfection until you've actually achieved pretty good - just do what you can when you can in managable chunks, and you'll get to pretty good, then it won't be too hard to just keep getting a bit better one thing at a time. Also I'd recommend starting by checking where your daily consumption is going - we cut about 40% off our daily electricity consumption just by replacing an old chest freezer, 15 halogen bulbs with LED, and switching the electric shower to be fed from our solar water heating / gas boiler, and a couple of other minor things, for a total cost of around £600.

thus endeth tonights sermon.

 

[balbecdaze]

Gavin A - exactly, I love my LEDs!, lets just do what we can. The important thing is to do it!

 

[sedgy34]

Missed all that lastnight it was a curry and a film for me I'm not as sad as you lot lol mind you the film was about saving the planet lol

 

[Gavin A]

that was just light relief, I'd spent the entire night trying to get my head around how to integrate a 1000l thermal store with biomass, solar thermal, gas boiler, underfloor heating and radiator feeds.

It reminded me why I liked PV, all the complexities pale into insignificance vs a decent multifuel renewable heat solution.

 

[Vegelen]

Solar PV is an excellent long term investment.

Q/ What can a UK customer in North West England living in a house with a 30 degree roof, oriented due south, with minimal shading and a 25 square meter sized roof on a typical family semi detatched home, expect to gain by installing a well designed, good quality solar pv system?

A/ 885 - 925 KWhrs / Per Installed 1KW of Solar PV/ per annum.
- A 3KW Solar system can generate 2655KWhrs per annum.
- A 4KW Solar system can generate 3540KWhrs per annum.

Let us assume we install a 3KW system:

Installation price £5400 - £5900, Generation FIT: 16p, Export FIT: 4.5p.

- 2655 KWhrs generated energy will make £424.80 in FIT generation payments..
- 1328 KW hrs exported energy will make £59.76 in FIT export payments.

- Let us assume 30% of your generated electricity 797KWhrs is used in the home.
- Assume electricity costs 14p (14/100 x 797 = £111.58).

Total Year 1 Savings: £484.56 + £111.58 = £596.14.

If your system cost £5400 to install you could expect to make your original investment back in less than 9 years.

NB: FIT payments are index linked and change with inflation, so your payback time will be quicker than dividing the total cost of installation of your system with year 1's earnings.

Energy prices are rising on an average annualised basis of 4.5% over the last 20 years, but far more recently.

If energy prices continue to escalate, the payback time on your system will reduce.