The 'Electric gate' scam

[meditek]

Is the whole electric gate installation business a subtle scam. Had gate installed with Thalia P controller and BFT electrics. Got my head around wireless remotes fairly quickly and sorted those out. However, the damn thing screws up every time there is a power cut. The Thalia user manual is deliberately vague and uses it's own codes which need an Einstein to work through so DIY is a nono and every power cut costs me a £100 visit from the installer with his decryption gizmo which is much like the car servicing scam where you have to take your car to a main agent with the electronics to diagnose your problem with massive fees to update your software when they feel like it. When I buy something I expect to be given the means to maintain it. Gates people ensure you don't and the whole blasted industry is in league with them. Is this protectionism actually legal?

 

[buzzlightyear]

the whole electric gate installation business a subtle scam

are their any other company near to you to sort it out when the power cut .

 

[DPG]

If it screws up every time power is switched off then there is something wrong and I would be getting them to fix it properly. Completely unsatisfactory.

 

[James]

I am wondering if you have a case for complaint against the installer.

They have provided a system that is not suitable for the environment it is installed in.
Keep a good record of all service call outs and what they say they have fixed.
if you have several "reset controller after power cut " then i would be pushing for it not being suitable for future use as it is unable to deal with something that is likely to happen regularly.

 

[Yozza19]

We’re are u located ? ……..

 

[James]

coventry (midlands, uk)

and some more words to help me post it.

 

[James]

are you able to replicate the fault at will?
i.e. if you turn off the main breaker to the building, leave it for 30 seconds and turn it back on does the problem appear again?

 

[SparkyChick]

@meditek ,

What codes are you getting from the control board?

 

[meditek]

If it screws up every time power is switched off then there is something wrong and I would be getting them to fix it properly. Completely unsatisfactory.

Seems power cuts are a universal cause of gate problems. Wouldn't show me how to do it myself as it was 'too dangerous'. It's a 24v system with buttons designed to be pressed.

 

[DPG]

Seems power cuts are a universal cause of gate problems. Wouldn't show me how to do it myself as it was 'too dangerous'. It's a 24v system with buttons designed to be pressed.

It's not fit for purpose. No way would I be booking an engineer and having to be at home every time. And then getting charged £100 for the privilege!

 

[meditek]

@meditek ,

What codes are you getting from the control board?

Good point. I'll check.

are you able to replicate the fault at will?
i.e. if you turn off the main breaker to the building, leave it for 30 seconds and turn it back on does the problem appear again?

After a power cut we have to 'unlock' it and manually open it and when the power returns it stops closing about a centimeter before the lock engages so I have adjusted the striker plate accordingly but have now run out of adjustment so need the electronics adjusted. Haven't tried the DIY power cut as it could end up costing me again.

 

[buzzlightyear]

After a power cut we have to 'unlock' it and manually open it and when the power returns it stops closing about a centimeter before the lock engages so I have adjusted the striker plate accordingly but have now run out of adjustment so need the electronics adjusted. Haven't tried the DIY power cut as it could end up costing me again.

The reason for that is a safety factor.
Over the recent times where peaple have been injured or killed on electric gates closing on peaple.

 

[DPG]

The reason for that is a safety factor.
Over the recent times where peaple have been injured or killed on electric gates closing on peaple.

Yes I get the fact that it shouldn't automatically close when power comes back on. But it shouldn't need an engineer to come and visit.

 

[snowhead]

How often and how long are the power cuts?

It may be worth investing in a small U.P.S to hold power to the gate controls

If this is the correct manual below, I can't see any settings that shouldn't normally be held in memory and no reference to loss of power.

The "decription gizmo" will only be a program presenting the settings in a slightly more user friendly view, and I supsect will hold a copy of your settings which can easilly be downloaded to your controller, saves scrolling through the menu with a button.

https://www.bftautomationuk.com/files/50/Control-Panels/119/Thalia-P---Instruction-manual.pdf

 

[DPG]

Could it be something simple like the backup battery is faulty and so the settings are being lost?

 

[littlespark]

I remember our gate at caravan park was always troublesome.
This was for traffic and was the length of a road width… so sensed traffic going both ways.

Wasn’t for security… it just slowed traffic down enough so that we could read number plates off cctv.

It needed power to hold it down… so when there was a power cut, it opened under spring. Fail safe rather than fail secure.

We did get it serviced by the installers annually.. it is a specialised piece of machinery after all.

The problem ours had was on certain days, when the sun hit the optical sensors… the gate got confused and started waving up and down.. comical to watch… but no one could get in or out.. we had to manually switch it to always open.

Footage on YouTube somewhere… will have to find it..

 

[meditek]

Could it be something simple like the backup battery is faulty and so the settings are being lost?

No backup battery to my knowledge.

 

[DPG]

Battery backup kits are available for the Thalia P system. However these are to allow the gates to function during power outages. Example below.

Hiwever, I still think yours is losing its settings due to a fault.

 

[meditek]

How often and how long are the power cuts?

It may be worth investing in a small U.P.S to hold power to the gate controls

If this is the correct manual below, I can't see any settings that shouldn't normally be held in memory and no reference to loss of power.

The "decription gizmo" will only be a program presenting the settings in a slightly more user friendly view, and I supsect will hold a copy of your settings which can easilly be downloaded to your controller, saves scrolling through the menu with a button.

https://www.bftautomationuk.com/files/50/Control-Panels/119/Thalia-P---Instruction-manual.pdf

That's the manual. There is a heiroglyphic for closing distance but how you arrive at it and what it actually means are not shown. I attempted to ask BFT but they wouldn't talk to me because I was not one of their installers! They also informed the local installer who I'd used (only one for miles) that I'd been in contact with them!!!!!!!! Note that in order to get useful information from the BFT website you have to login and only installers have that privilege!

 

[meditek]

Battery backup kits are available for the Thalia P system. However these are to allow the gates to function during power outages. Example below.

Hiwever, I still think yours is losing its settings due to a fault.

View attachment 100631

Thanks but our system is for convenience not security and I've spent enough already. :-(

 

[DPG]

Thanks but our system is for convenience not security and I've spent enough already. :-(

Absolutely. I think you've spent far too much already - I would be escalating things with the installer, and also speaking to the manufacturer of the control module.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I remember our gate at the prison was always troublesome.
This was for traffic and was the length of a road width… so sensed traffic going both ways.

Wasn’t for security… it just slowed traffic down enough so that we could read number plates off cctv but missed the prisoners going out.

So was you in the watch tower at the time.

 

[meditek]

I am wondering if you have a case for complaint against the installer.

They have provided a system that is not suitable for the environment it is installed in.
Keep a good record of all service call outs and what they say they have fixed.
if you have several "reset controller after power cut " then i would be pushing for it not being suitable for future use as it is unable to deal with something that is likely to happen regularly.

Dear James and everyone else,
Having today had a truthful account of my efforts to find a DIY solution to my problem censored by a robot I have decided to withdraw from this thread as I'm 82 in a few days and can do without Big Brothers everywhere these days. My solution to the problem is to remove the striker plate and fit a £5 manual hook and ring leaving us with a powered swinging gate that can be latched when required and two fingers to the industry and robotic censors.
Goodbye and thank you all for your advice.
Last words! :- it seems the robotic censor has been over-ruled and my reply re-instated!

 

[westward10]

Dear James and everyone else,
Having today had a truthful account of my efforts to find a DIY solution to my problem censored by a robot I have decided to withdraw from this thread as I'm 82 in a few days and can do without Big Brothers everywhere these days. My solution to the problem is to remove the striker plate and fit a £5 manual hook and ring leaving us with a powered swinging gate that can be latched when required and two fingers to the industry and robotic censors.
Goodbye and thank you all for your advice.

Nothing has been censored or edited on here

 

[meditek]

Nothing has been censored or edited on here

Well you missed mine which has just been reinstated. Ask DPG.

 

[westward10]

Well you missed mine which has just been reinstated. Ask DPG.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[meditek]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe you could suggest how I can spell it out to you? Here is another try. My reply to DPG's post with a link to the ThaliaP user manual appeared for most of today with a robotic note saying that only I could see it because it was under 'moderation' or words to that effect. The email was not immoderate nor anti-wokish imho which is why, presumably, it was re-instated this evening.
Hopefully, you now have a better idea what I'm talking about?

 

[DPG]

Maybe you could suggest how I can spell it out to you? Here is another try. My reply to DPG's post with a link to the ThaliaP user manual appeared for most of today with a robotic note saying that only I could see it because it was under 'moderation' or words to that effect. The email was not immoderate nor anti-wokish imho which is why, presumably, it was re-instated this evening.
Hopefully, you now have a better idea what I'm talking about?

You are blowing things wildly out of proportion! A link was not shown on the forum for some reason that's all. If you want to give up on things just because of that then that's up to you, but it's a bad case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Having said that, I hope you can get it sorted. I don't like to see people being ripped off.

 

[westward10]

Maybe you could suggest how I can spell it out to you? Here is another try. My reply to DPG's post with a link to the ThaliaP user manual appeared for most of today with a robotic note saying that only I could see it because it was under 'moderation' or words to that effect. The email was not immoderate nor anti-wokish imho which is why, presumably, it was re-instated this evening.
Hopefully, you now have a better idea what I'm talking about?

One of your posts went through moderation just after midday. None of your posts have been edited.

 

[meditek]

One of your posts went through moderation just after midday. None of your posts have been edited.

Never suggested they had been edited and still wondering wth I said that sucked in moderation in the first place. Please enlighten me?

 

[westward10]

Never suggested they had been edited and still wondering wth I said that sucked in moderation in the first place. Please enlighten me?

It happens even long standing members have a post dropped into moderation. I approved this thread initially and not all subsequent posts of yours went through moderation it is nothing sinister.

 

[SparkyChick]

@meditek ,

As a new user, it's more than usual for the forum software (as configured by the site owner) will put your post through moderation if it contains a link. It's not uncommon for a spammer to sign up, make a few posts and then start spamming links. This approach stops that kind of thing happening.

It happens to all new users and is nothing personal. It's just a fairly standard forum policy these days and unfortunately you have a small vocal minority (the spammers) to thank for it.

 

[meditek]

You are blowing things wildly out of proportion! A link was not shown on the forum for some reason that's all. If you want to give up on things just because of that then that's up to you, but it's a bad case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Having said that, I hope you can get it sorted. I don't like to see people being ripped off.

Wait till you're my age and see how much time you're willing to devote nauseous business and IT practices. Is there a company in this country who is not too busy to answer your call right now etc etc
'A link was not shown on the forum for some reason that's all' eh? My reply to your post was blocked by a bot! We live in the UK not China.

 

[DPG]

Wait till you're my age and see how much time you're willing to devote nauseous business and IT practices. Is there a company in this country who is too busy to answer your call right now etc etc
'A link was not shown on the forum for some reason that's all' eh? My reply to your post was blocked by a bot! We live in the UK not China.

Blimy what an extreme attitude! It's a standard method to protect the site and its members from spammers.

Perhaps stick to paper and pencil to avoid risk of any stress.

 

[westward10]

Wait till you're my age and see how much time you're willing to devote nauseous business and IT practices. Is there a company in this country who is not too busy to answer your call right now etc etc
'A link was not shown on the forum for some reason that's all' eh? My reply to your post was blocked by a bot! We live in the UK not China.

If you want this thread to continue then get back to the original topic or I will close it.

 

[mainline]

Blimy what an extreme attitude! It's a standard method to protect the site and its members from spammers.

Perhaps stick to paper and pencil to avoid risk of any stress.

He can't be married, otherwise he would know what stress really is

 

[James]

It is unfortunate that the site "delayed" your post because it had a link in it or for any other reason.

please bear in mind though that most of the people who are trying to help you solve the problem are practicing electricians working in many fields.

by far the majority of us are spending some of our free time trying to help others with no financial gain.
we could of course just offer to come fix it, my rate is xx for call out and --- per hour thereafter. but in general we are a friendly bunch who enjoy helping others sort out problems that may be over and above the posters (your) experience and knowledge.

please don't think that big brother is watching or controlling us, we are Simpley giving a little back to the community.

Kind regards, James

 

[123]

Willing to bet there is something that hasn't been revealed by the OP as to why they are being charged the call out fee on these occasions. Seems quick enough to go to a DIY alteration.