To re-wire? Or not to re-wire?

[EbolaSideRoom]

Carried out an EICR in a domestic property today.
Client has recently purchased but not moved in, so place is empty. It's a detached bungalow, 2 beds, Gas-fired system boiler, detached garage.
There are 7 (yes 7) socket outlet circuits, all either B16A or B20A, each with no more than 6 outlets. R1 + R2 readings suggest spurs a-plenty, although the readings aren't outlandish. On the other hand, most of the IR readings come in sub 10 megohms, with two of the circuits having IR readings lower than 1 megohm L-E. There is only one lighting circuit, with 12 switches/points including the gas system boiler. Aside from a handful of C3 or FI codes (including the abovementioned IR readings) it is Satisfactory, yet I can't help feeling it wants rewiring, especially as it is empty for the time being.
Your thoughts?

 

[Octopus]

Locate the faults and fix them....

Not sure I agree with your FI code for the low IR - I would state this as a C2

As for multiple socket radials - whats the problem with this?

How can you justify recommending a rewire ?

 

[sparksburnout]

I presume from the word "client" that you are a professional spark who is offering his/her services to the general public? Why do you feel the need to ask basic questions on a forum? If you have done an EICR then you must have quite a bit of experience surely? Do you do this sort of work often??

 

[shaun1]

It would be a good opportunity to update the wiring whilst the property is empty, especially if other renovation work is being carried out. But that doesn't mean it needs to be done.

Obviously the faults need repairing and perhaps it would be worth dividing the lighting on to two or more circuits, and maybe moving the boiler to one of the radial socket circuits.

Not sure what you mean about spurs a pleanty if the circuits are radial

 

[westward10]

What is your estimated age of the installation. Have you spoken to your client with regards as to the pros and cons and what they intend to do with the property, renting out may require just make good but if they intend to refurbish it then it may be beneficial to rewire to meet their needs. Either way the EICR should comment on it's current condition.

 

[Midwest]

Bullocks re-wire, along with the new gas boiler, bathroom, kitchen, Wi-Fi controlled lighting, landscape garden etc etc etc!

 

[Toneyz]

Does the electrical installation serve the purpose of the new owner if it doesn't then this is the ideal time.

 

[Midwest]

Does the electrical installation serve the purpose of the new owner if it doesn't then this is the ideal time.

Horse poo, they gonna spend a fortune on a new kitchen, why not make some dosh on selling them a rewire?

 

[Octopus]

Bullocks re-wire, along with the new gas boiler, bathroom, kitchen, Wi-Fi controlled lighting, landscape garden etc etc etc!

And don't forget the electric gates, CCTV and intercom system ..

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

Locate the faults and fix them....

Not sure I agree with your FI code for the low IR - I would state this as a C2

As for multiple socket radials - whats the problem with this?

How can you justify recommending a rewire ?

IN reverse..
`I don't think that I can, it's just that it seems like it should be. I know that isn't really the correct approach, after all this is science, not art. This is why I'm asking. I haven't had the opportunity to discuss this with client yet either. TBH I'm inclined to agree with both your other comments; I have no problem at all with multiple socket radials (even if there are three different socket circuits in one room) and the low IR does speak of something going wrong in the near future.

 

[sparksburnout]

Horse poo, they gonna spend a fortune on a new kitchen, why not make some dosh on selling them a rewire?

How did you know the firm involved was called bullocks & horse poo?

 

[Midwest]

And don't forget the electric gates, CCTV and intercom system ..

Ohh no, you 1960's wiring has just past its test (or it for sparkburn'ouch) for the next 57 years, go for it!

 

[sparksburnout]

IN reverse..
`I don't think that I can, it's just that it seems like it should be. I know that isn't really the correct approach, after all this is science, not art. This is why I'm asking. I haven't had the opportunity to discuss this with client yet either. TBH I'm inclined to agree with both your other comments; I have no problem at all with multiple socket radials (even if there are three different socket circuits in one room) and the low IR does speak of something going wrong in the near future.

Does the client live on another planet then? A 2 bedroom bungalow with 3 different socket circuits in one room??? Are you having a giggle?

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

It would be a good opportunity to update the wiring whilst the property is empty, especially if other renovation work is being carried out. But that doesn't mean it needs to be done.

Obviously the faults need repairing and perhaps it would be worth dividing the lighting on to two or more circuits, and maybe moving the boiler to one of the radial socket circuits.

Not sure what you mean about spurs a pleanty if the circuits are radial

That is my opinion really.
And by spurs a-plenty I'm suggesting that the radial circuits have been wired in branches, not linearly (is that a word?).

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

Does the client live on another planet then?

No, just a different town.

 

[willy fixit]

Does the electrical installation serve the purpose of the new owner if it doesn't then this is the ideal time.

A conversation with the owners is the way to go... IMHO!

 

[Midwest]

How did you know the firm involved was called bullocks & horse poo?

I'm just checking your spelling and grammar before I reply, I think you've fallen off your stool. Like finding out your English teacher makes spelling mistakes.

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

Does the client live on another planet then? A 2 bedroom bungalow with 3 different socket circuits in one room??? Are you having a giggle?

Not particularly. I'm saying what I've seen.

 

[Midwest]

Not particularly. I'm saying what I've seen.

Don't listen to him, he don't know his it from its!

 

[sparksburnout]

I'm just checking your spelling and grammar before I reply, I think you've fallen off your stool. Like finding out your English teacher makes spelling mistakes.

I don't produce enough stools to fall off, unlike some people

 

[Midwest]

It's all gone quiet over there! It does make me smile, big leg'ends on here, get all prime & proper on spelling, grammar & the like, but when THEY make mistakes...................tumbleweed

 

[Midwest]

I don't produce enough stools to fall off, unlike some people

I was gonna say pedestal, but can you climb that far

 

[Toneyz]

The higher they climb the further they fall.

 

[sparksburnout]

I was gonna say pedestal, but can you climb that far

You have lost me a bit here Middy, where is this "its" you are on about?

 

[PEG]

This better end up in the playground,as a straightener...

 

[shaun1]

Perhaps a good approach would be to point out that whilst most test results are acceptable there are some faults and the setup is slightly unconventional. So it may be worth digging a bit deeper (as you will have to anyway to find the low IR faults. If more problems start to appear you could stop and reconsider rewiring options.

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

That will be my approach when I get hold of client.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

I'd suggest a re-wire to address all the issues you've raised. Certainly a new cu at least.

 

[Upton Sparks]

Ebola hey ? I think you've got the Idea, sell them a rewire.

by the way, FI on a EICR should result in an unsatisfactory certificate.
FI are not a get out of jail card. Its not your goal to issue satisfactory certificates, it should be to access the installation and to make sure the installation is safe. Its your Name on it after all.
good luck

 

[sparksburnout]

This better end up in the playground,as a straightener...

Well it looks like it's )) home time but if the readings really are that bad, then it's time for rewiring it, considering the current situation. If they really are that bad, that is.

Ebola hey ? I think you've got the Idea, sell them a rewire.

by the way, FI on a EICR should result in an unsatisfactory certificate.
FI are not a get out of jail card. Its not your goal to issue satisfactory certificates, it should be to access the installation and to make sure the installation is safe. Its your Name on it after all.
good luck

BS. The only thing that results in an unsatisfactory result is a C1 or a C2. Professional sparks should not be looking for any opportunity to do a complete rewire either, the existing installation may be easily corrected by fixing the faults found. If you are going to issue an unsatisfactory certificate then you need to state exactly why it is so, not just give it an ambiguous "FI".

 

[7029 dave]

IMO, okay radials are not the best (just me), with a IR lower than 1 megohm, not the best is it, what age is the cabling ? pvc/rubber?, at the end of the day testing is all well and good, but go with your eyes visual inspection is 90% of condition reports.

 

[Octopus]

and the low IR does speak of something going wrong in the near future.

with a reading you got should mean a C2 and locating it ..... and fixing it.

 

[HandySparks]

BS. The only thing that results in an unsatisfactory result is a C1 or a C2. ...

If the further investigation might reveal a code C1 or C2 item, a code 'FI' should result in an 'Unsatisfactory' report. BYB page 426.

 

[sparksburnout]

If the further investigation might reveal a code C1 or C2 item, a code 'FI' should result in an 'Unsatisfactory' report. BYB page 426.

Yes true, but it is a bit vague?

 

[Upton Sparks]

BS. The only thing that results in an unsatisfactory result is a C1 or a C2. Professional sparks should not be looking for any opportunity to do a complete rewire either, the existing installation may be easily corrected by fixing the faults found. If you are going to issue an unsatisfactory certificate then you need to state exactly why it is so, not just give it an ambiguous "FI".

No. Professional Sparks job's are to make sure the installation is safe.
The selling of your services are completely unrelated to the issuing of certificates, but I do see EICR as a sale tool, because they are..
That does not mean you scare people in to having work done which is not required.
Any rewire will have pro's and con's, and its the customer choice, your job is to explain it and sell your self.

But the us of an FI as,
"well I don't want to put a nasty C2 down as Im' unsure,... so I think if I do a FI we'll all be okay and HappY with a Satisfactory certificate"

No I'm sorry it unsatisfactory it not Vague at all.

you also need to think your issuing a certificate say "this is up to standard and Safe"!, the further investigation is really, I have run out of time on( as your on time frame to complete the testing) this but I am very unhappy with this, it need to be investigated to identify the problem and made good.

Just out of curiosity how many C3 would it take before You issued an unsatisfactory report? ...