Wireless Smoke & Heat Detectors

[gryphon]

With new legislation in Scotland coming in shortly i was wondering what's peoples preferred maker of 10 year lithium battery smoke and heat detectors.

 

[littlespark]

Aico.

no one else makes them with a 10yr battery and radio interlink.
As far as I know.

 

[gryphon]

I've come across Fireangel and Hispec also while searching today

 

[DefyG]

BS 5839:2019 Table 1 Grade D (1/2) which covers majority of domestic installations (not sure about Scotland though) states;
Mains Powered and battery back up!

A totally wireless system presumably is not permitted?

 

[ferg]

The fireangel battery wifi detectors, in my experience at least, don't last.

I've been to a few properties to install wired systems after the owner has installed these and they are failing after 12 months or so.

The regulation states that the batteries should be tamper proof which the Fireangel are.

Something like the Fireangel is the cheapest option but I'd always recommend hard wired Aico with lithium battery backup.

The legislation is available on the Scottish government website and Aico have a guide on theirs too.

 

[gryphon]

BS 5839:2019 Table 1 Grade D (1/2) which covers majority of domestic installations (not sure about Scotland though) states;
Mains Powered and battery back up!

A totally wireless system presumably is not permitted?

The new legislation due in Scotland early 2021 is for all house holds to have smoke/heat detectors installed and the 10 year wireless interlinked are permitted. See 16.5 of attached

 

[pirate]

Aico for me. I've installed a few in the past years to make rented properties comply and not had a failure yet, and I will be using them in the coming months. Just worry that as the new Scottish regs become more widely-known, Aico may run out of stock...

 

[ferg]

Aico for me. I've installed a few in the past years to make rented properties comply and not had a failure yet, and I will be using them in the coming months. Just worry that as the new Scottish regs become more widely-known, Aico may run out of stock...

Aico have just sent out leaflets to everyone on the planet about the change in legislation due in Feb.

 

[nicebutdim]

Aico for me. I've installed a few in the past years to make rented properties comply and not had a failure yet, and I will be using them in the coming months. Just worry that as the new Scottish regs become more widely-known, Aico may run out of stock...

I'd imagine Aico will have planned for this and intend getting their product into every possible home.

 

[littlespark]

Aico being very proactive on this.
I got a leaflet through the door last week, from aico on the 12th.... the same day the Scot govt published the same thing on their website.
looked at fire angel pro brand detectors in Homebase today, but I think I’ll still insist on aico.

 

[UNG]

The new legislation due in Scotland early 2021 is for all house holds to have smoke/heat detectors installed and the 10 year wireless interlinked are permitted. See 16.5 of attached

Just to correct your post
The new legislation for Scotland was introduced in February 2019 with a period of 2 years allowed to meet the requirements of that legislation. The February 2021 date is the date by which all properties must be compliant with the legislation

 

[gryphon]

Just to correct your post
The new legislation for Scotland was introduced in February 2019 with a period of 2 years allowed to meet the requirements of that legislation. The February 2021 date is the date by which all properties must be compliant with the legislation

I knew it had been introduced 2019 with the Feb date for everybody to comply. Most people will be like me, either never payed attention or just don't know.

I'll be getting my finger out over the next few months and getting dad and my own up to spec.

I'm a spark but have never really worked domestic, number one son is an electrician and works for himself, and he says he only uses Aico. My brother keeps looking into cheaper options like HiSpec, I'm just trying to get the consensus from sparks who install these things on a regular biases.

 

[pirate]

The Aico stuff is expensive, comparatively...and telling customers it will last 10 years isn't helpful, but what price safety?
The answer you will get is "I haven't had these in my house for the 40 years I've been here, so why now?"
Move on...
Fit the best, fit it properly, and you can't be blamed.

 

[UNG]

Have fitted Aico for many years and had no problems have looked at other manufacturers detectors and they don't cut it for me

 

[pirate]

Fit quality
Fit once
Fit the best,
and if it's done right, it will stay right
For 10 years anyway!

 

[Dartlec]

BS 5839:2019 Table 1 Grade D (1/2) which covers majority of domestic installations (not sure about Scotland though) states;
Mains Powered and battery back up!

A totally wireless system presumably is not permitted?

I've seen guidance (I forget where - possibly in an ESF document), that when a tenant is on a key meter and may go through periods with no power, a battery only solution may be preferable - as it ensures that the alarm is still active when they have no money on a Friday night to load the meter.

Not sure what the standby time is on the mains ones with lithum battery - they may still be the best option though.

From my experience with EICRs on rented properties , the 9V battery backup ones are pointless as they will either run out or be removed when the toast sets them off - same with those on their own circuit - that circuit always ends up turned off.

 

[littlespark]

The legislation is trying to do away with the 9v replacable battery’s for just that... people taking the battery out...

I saw a fire angel pro display in Homebase that stated they were “used by 90% of fire brigades”
Yes.... cheap and cheerful. When the fire service would put one in when none existed before. The cheap ones they put in are now all illegal (in Scotland)
Actually....my local Homebase is in England.


Edit
I signed up for the aico expert installer course... it’s done online now.
possibly just going over the instructions regarding positioning, but maybe I get a badge???

 

[pc1966]

It beggars belief, but as said above, the number of times folk remove the PP3 batteries from alarms for kid's toys, etc. Surprising when thought about, and sad when it is discovered in a fatal accident inquiry.

I personally prefer ones I can replace the battery in, but then I like to think I am not a complete muppet who is going for a trip on moron road!

 

[Dartlec]

The legislation is trying to do away with the 9v replacable battery’s for just that... people taking the battery out...

I saw a fire angel pro display in Homebase that stated they were “used by 90% of fire brigades”
Yes.... cheap and cheerful. When the fire service would put one in when none existed before. The cheap ones they put in are now all illegal (in Scotland)
Actually....my local Homebase is in England.

Didn't they have a problem a few years back when a load of their '10 year battery' ones were giving up after 3 years?

Still better than nothing at all I guess...

 

[littlespark]

A 10 year battery smoke detector will work for all that time as long as it doesn’t go off.
Surely every time it sounds, the battery will be depleted a bit

 

[pirate]

I usually install a mains powered smoke with 10 year battery, run off the hall lighting circuit, and use radio linked battery only for the other smokes/heat. I think every time the alarm sounds on the battery ones they will deplete a little, but apart from the monthly test that lasts about 10 seconds, i doubt if that depletion will significantly reduce the 10 year life.

 

[Ziggie]

BS 5839:2019 Table 1 Grade D (1/2) which covers majority of domestic installations (not sure about Scotland though) states;
Mains Powered and battery back up!

A totally wireless system presumably is not permitted?

The system in Scotland states the fire alarms need to be interlink but does not define if you can’t use wireless to achieve it. Carbon Monoxide alarms don’t need to be interlinked into the system.

 

[Ziggie]

I have an EI smoke alarm and it’s worked for 35 years. It’s testing doesn’t need a smoke canister to check although my alarm company checks it yearly. It is connected into my monitored system. It comes in battery and mains powered and wired and wireless.

 

[pirate]

In Scotland you can now fit all-battery radio linked in rented houses and existing houses. This is to encourage fitting. However, I believe that Building Control have not yet adopted this, so in new builds hard wired mains powered is still the way to go. Nobody ever checked up on my rentals, it's the rules to have detectors, and until recently they had to be hard-wired. Just as with EPCs, it's the landlord's duty to have one, but nobody ever checked unless a problem arose. I used the hybrid layout I mentioned earlier and made an enquiry of BC and they effectively shrugged and said it was fine in the circumstances, but obviously not in writing. Their attitude was that they were more concerned that landlords did actually fit something, rather than do nothing. A tenant did, some years ago, remove the detector from the kitchen ceiling in one of my flats, because of nuisance alarms. Thereafter when I fitted the new Aico system they couldn't readily do that, and anyway nuisance alarms didn't occur.

 

[littlespark]

I have an EI smoke alarm and it’s worked for 35 years. It’s testing doesn’t need a smoke canister to check although my alarm company checks it yearly. It is connected into my monitored system. It comes in battery and mains powered and wired and wireless.

Isnt there a "replace by" date on this smoke detector? usually 10 years also.
EI electronics is Aico under a different name.

The Scot govt publication does state mains powered OR long life battery, with hard wired interlink OR radio.... so that covers it.
It makes sense to make them hard wired in new builds, while the rest of the wiring is being done. Cheaper when it comes to replacing them.

 

[richy3333]

In Scotland you can now fit all-battery radio linked in rented houses and existing houses.

Do you have a link for this as it was my understanding they still had to be hard wired? I'd like to update my info.

 

[Ziggie]

Do you have a link for this as it was my understanding they still had to be hard wired? I'd like to update my info.

It’s on the government U.K. site. If you type Gov Scotland fire alarms in google you should find it. Interested in your opinion hard wired vs wireless and battery vs mains powered. I think the price quoted mentions diy prices and states you need electrician off hard wired!

 

[Ziggie]

It’s on the government U.K. site. If you type Gov Scotland fire alarms in google you should find it. Interested in your opinion hard wired vs wireless and battery vs mains powered. I think the price quoted mentions diy prices and states you need electrician off hard wired!

In addition the site mentions a guidance document and I quote from it:
“Mains-operated alarms (with battery backup) are permitted, and tamper proof long-life lithium battery alarms (i.e. not PP3 type or user-replaceable) are also permitted. Alarms should be regularly maintained and tested in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions.”

 

[Mike Johnson]

Never seems to get mentioned that the Aico 3000 series of alarms HAVE to be mains powered to charge the batteries that enable the ten year period to be maintained, if not mains powered the battery will keep the units working for four months only.

 

[ferg]

Never seems to get mentioned that the Aico 3000 series of alarms HAVE to be mains powered to charge the batteries that enable the ten year period to be maintained, if not mains powered the battery will keep the units working for four months only.

I think it's expected that mains powered battery backup detectors would need to have mains power.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It may just be me, but the Aico description could be miss-read:

• Mains powered with 10 year rechargeable lithium cell back-up

It certainly does not say the alarm must be mains powered and its not until you delve into the small print of the specification that it indicates they will run for four months without mains power.

Its a bit clearer in the Downloaded Data Sheet, but I'm a man I don't read instructions. LOL

https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei30...o.co.uk/wp-includes/images/media/document.png

 

[DefyG]

Aico instructions;

“The mains and battery power is automatically connected as the Alarm slides onto the mounting plate. Each Alarm comes with built-in rechargeable backup batteries to power the Alarm in the event of a mains failure.”

Pretty obvious to most competent electricians it needs mains supply to recharge the battery, maybe not to DIYers?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Pretty obvious to most competent electricians it needs mains supply to recharge the battery, maybe not to DIYers?

If would seen not to even competent electricians reading some of the previous post on Aico alarms.

 

[Ziggie]

If would seen not to even competent electricians reading some of the previous post on Aico alarms.

I’m an idiot dryer and I think that this is obvious. They do make battery only units .

 

[Mike Johnson]

Are you top or front loading dryer? LOL

Where I think any confusion could come in is the battery only units are described as 10 year Life Lithium battery units.

• Battery powered with a sealed in lithium battery
• Easy to fit – twist on base and multi-fixings
• 10 year life
• Standalone unit

As I said above perhaps its just me, I tend to read what is on the page not assume what somebody may have meant.

• Mains powered with 10 year rechargeable lithium cell back-up

That statement to me reads that the rechargeable Lithium cell will last ten years as per their battery only units, it does not indicate to me that the unit must be mains powered and the Lithium battery has a duty cycle of ten years.

 

[DefyG]

I thought (see your post #29) it was about the 3000 series?

The 'stand alone' lithium powered are a totally different series!

 

[littlespark]

Standalone units also suggests no interlink....

Aico do a wide range of detectors, but I only see 4 that are wholly 10 year battery (no mains)

Carbon monoxide standalone
Carbon monoxide with radiolink
Heat alarm with radiolink
Optical smoke with radiolink

All the rest have mains connection, with either a PP3 or rechargeable battery as back up, and can use a wired interlink.

You can add a radiolink module or base to a mains detector to allow it to communicate with one of the sealed lithium units with radiolink

 

[Rockingit]

I installed I think it was 7 of the Fire Angels at our house in Fife when we started to Air BnB and then into full-time rental. No complaints and two years on they all work fine still. Couldn't use a wired system due to the nature of the building and it being Grade 2 listed but the Scottish B&B/Rental regs changed around the same time so a radio solution was permitted.

 

[pirate]

As always, correct selection is the key.
as for installation, many DIY folks can install the battery ones, but some will baulk at the extra cost of the radio modules to link them. However, the saving in time/labour/decoration etc still makes them a good choice in many homes.

 

[pirate]

Also, this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-54621068


So that's my pre-Cristmas earners bgrd!

 

[loz2754]

The legislation is trying to do away with the 9v replacable battery’s for just that... people taking the battery out...

I saw a fire angel pro display in Homebase that stated they were “used by 90% of fire brigades”
Yes.... cheap and cheerful. When the fire service would put one in when none existed before. The cheap ones they put in are now all illegal (in Scotland)
Actually....my local Homebase is in England.


Edit
I signed up for the aico expert installer course... it’s done online now.
possibly just going over the instructions regarding positioning, but maybe I get a badge???

I just recently did the online expert installer course. I'm now an Aico Expert Installer! Yay. Still waiting for the van sticker.

 

[DefyG]

Well done Loz, all the Aico questions can be directed to yourself now ?

 

[littlespark]

A van sticker? I just did the online course yesterday, no mention of a van sticker!!!

 

[Mike Johnson]

I know a couple of guys with rattle cans that would do it for you.

 

[Ziggie]

I’m always behind the curve. I have a 35 year old Ei smoke detector mains powered tested last week hardwired into my burglar alarm system.

When a test failed a couple of years ago, I installed a battery powered Nest smoke and CO alarm in the downstairs hall. This doesn’t talk to the EI alarm upstairs hall.

unfortunately Nest don’t do a Heat alarm

I wish I had installed EI as they do the complete range and if England follows Scotland’s lead, I could use lithium battery powered and wireless linked alarms through out.

The Scottish government says that the cost for alarms in the living room , two halls, and kitchen all interlinked would be £220 if diy and about the same + electricians time to do mains powered.

I think that the EI units needed would cost more than the £220 figure .

 

[littlespark]

Depends where you get the detectors from, but looking at £85 each, Screwfix prices for Aico/Ei sealed lithium.. the ones they suggest a DIYer can install without employing an electrician.... for a smoke in hall, landing and living room, and a heat detector in kitchen.... never mind the carbon monoxide detector (which can still be the cheaper type and doesnt have to be linked) that comes in at £340... so where they get the £220 from, i dont know.

 

[nicebutdim]

I’m always behind the curve. I have a 35 year old Ei smoke detector mains powered tested last week hardwired into my burglar alarm system.

When a test failed a couple of years ago, I installed a battery powered Nest smoke and CO alarm in the downstairs hall. This doesn’t talk to the EI alarm upstairs hall.

unfortunately Nest don’t do a Heat alarm

I wish I had installed EI as they do the complete range and if England follows Scotland’s lead, I could use lithium battery powered and wireless linked alarms through out.

The Scottish government says that the cost for alarms in the living room , two halls, and kitchen all interlinked would be £220 if diy and about the same + electricians time to do mains powered.

I think that the EI units needed would cost more than the £220 figure .

Aico is a wholly owned subsidiary of EI Electronics.

Aside from providing robust and reliable products, they've also made their current range of interlinked detectors compatible with the preceding range - this has obvious advantages for both installers and consumers.

Aico were the first (maybe still the only) company to produce a combined heat and CO detector, which has obvious advantages over individual units or combined smoke/CO units. It was this latter product that initially swayed me into fitting Aico detectors in my parents home and that experience will probably sway me toward replacing the Firex units in my own home with Aico, when the time comes.

 

[littlespark]

Also, this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-54621068


So that's my pre-Cristmas earners bgrd!

If you read it, it says they are CONSIDORING delaying it. So the headline is misleading

 

[DefyG]

I’m always behind the curve. I have a 35 year old Ei smoke detector mains powered teste

It may still work on the test button but my understanding is that the reason a “Replace by Date” is marked on the unit is because the sensor element (radioactive) deteriorates over that time (typically 10 years) and will not be as effective or effective at all despite still working on the test button as this only tests the audible device!

 

[gryphon]

Some good answers and guidance on my original question, thanks.

On the back of that has does anybody use a company called Edward Brothers, they've come up with the best price so far and seem to have a decent rating on Trust Pilot.