Working in live enclosures

[shanky887614]

Why is it that every image you post does not show up? Or is it just me that can't see it? [emoji2]

can you see it now?

 

[trev]

Better

 

[shanky887614]

I can't see em either, I think he's pasting as plain text instead of pasting the link

the thing is though i can see them? when i do them through tapa you can see them.

wierd

 

[Simonslimline]

can you see it now?

Yes that's working now.

 

[trev]

I binned tapatalk, I didn't see the point of it.

 

[shanky887614]

I binned tapatalk, I didn't see the point of it.

i use it on phone and it works well, im on a couple other forums and it alerts me with pop-up's when there are replies on threads

 

[Knobhead]

Are you self employed or with a firm!

neither at the minute!

I wonder why?

 

[Marvo]

Fair point. Would you be happy enough carrying out a ZE on a non ip2x main switch on a mech services panel or old style db? Still a risk in my eyes

It's a sad day when electricians can't do live tests. Anything electrical carries risks, it's the job to assess, understand and manage the risks accordingly.

We work live regularly, part of the job. Competence, risk assessment and appropriate PPE are the 3 things we require.

 

[Bobster]

If your suitably trained and competent I wouldn't even think twice about working in a partially live panel.

Electricity isnt something to be feared, just show it the respect it deserves.

 

[bigdavs83]

Sad day indeed marvo. Not once did I mention that I didn't. In fact if you look back you'll see my earlier posts about working in live d.b's. I was merely (poorly?!) trying to make a point that in most not all but most times we enter a board or a panel there is a presence of live cables. As has been said correct precautions and ppe must be risk assessed to the exact standard the job requires.

 

[Marvo]

Apologies Bigdavs, I misunderstood in that case by thinking you were suggesting live testing as being too risky.

 

[bigdavs83]

No harm marvo.

 

[easyfix]

dont see the problem here , any electrician should be qualified enough to conduct this works in a safe manor

 

[Engineer54]

Wow, things must have changed beyond all recognition on the industrial side of things if an electrician is now worried about working on and connecting cables to the isolated side of a TP+N switch fuse.

As for shutting down a factory process plant to do so, ....do me a favour!!

 

[Knobhead]

They’ve not changed that much. Some of us tried to keep the wheels of industry turning.

As I said, we’d sack the OP if he even suggested shutting a part of the plant down because he is worried about making connections in a live panel. He would be of no use to us what so ever.

 

[Pete999]

I know we're not meant to work live, but surely we're electricians and we're Trained to work with electricity! As long as you respect it and be careful! That's my view and I'll continue to do it!

That will be until someone is injured and the HSE are all over you like a rash asking you why you worked live

 

[Pete999]

This has me wondering why we all have insulated drivers etc.?:smilewinkgrin:

Cause they look pretty in your new veto Pro Pac tool tote, not like the Plumber's with rust spanners and bits of wire wool every where, seriously when you check terminals for tightness is one good reason

 

[Pete999]

It's a sad day when electricians can't do live tests. Anything electrical carries risks, it's the job to assess, understand and manage the risks accordingly.

We work live regularly, part of the job. Competence, risk assessment and appropriate PPE are the 3 things we require.

What he said

 

[telectrix]

can't see what all the fuss is about. next thing we know is HSE will be banning us from driving if the engine is running.

 

[Pete999]

can't see what all the fuss is about. next thing we know is HSE will be banning us from driving if the engine is running.

You know what would happen if someone got injured working live when it should have been made safe Tel, tickets pulled etc you know it

 

[Engineer54]

You know what would happen if someone got injured working live when it should have been made safe Tel, tickets pulled etc you know it

HSE are one of the reasons manufacturers in the UK can't compete with overseas companies!! It's become almost a ''Nanny' State'' (like Singapore) to the these holier than thou haven't got a clue faceless ----ers!!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The HSE are actually fairly sensible, it's more the consultants, H&S managers and insurers that tend to bug me, adding extra requirements and limitations beyond what the HSE consider reasonable. E.g, the HSE haven't banned ladders, their guidance is to find alternatives wherever possible. But some sites ban them altogether, even in situations where the risk is low and exposure short.

My take: Focus on major hazards. Wire outgoing circuit live, unless SF has inadequate guarding. Bank the time saved for when you do need to take steps to make something safe, such as attaching a new set of tails to the busbar.

 

[Andy78]

I was just going say before Lucien did.... I have heard the phrases "It's company policy" or "it's for the insurance" a lot more than "It's required under the health and safety at work act" when ridiculously convoluted working practices have been questioned.

 

[Engineer54]

The HSE are actually fairly sensible, it's more the consultants, H&S managers and insurers that tend to bug me, adding extra requirements and limitations beyond what the HSE consider reasonable. E.g, the HSE haven't banned ladders, their guidance is to find alternatives wherever possible. But some sites ban them altogether, even in situations where the risk is low and exposure short.

My take: Focus on major hazards. Wire outgoing circuit live, unless SF has inadequate guarding. Bank the time saved for when you do need to take steps to make something safe, such as attaching a new set of tails to the busbar.

Unfortunately these are the people that companies have to deal with on a day to day basis... And why overseas contractors (including the British company's) will not employ British H&S officers, they are just too much trouble to have on board.

 

[Badged01]

........, it's more the consultants, H&S managers and insurers that tend to bug me, adding extra requirements and limitations beyond what the HSE consider reasonable......

Think they're know as the jobs worth mob! Bit like grenades, they pop up every now and again, explode over something and leave you to sort out the mess. No comeback on them. Suppose they have to justify themselves somehow.....

 

[snowhead]

can't see what all the fuss is about. next thing we know is HSE will be banning us from driving if the engine is running.

If HSE had any jurisdiction on transport, there wouldn't be a single vehicle on the road.

Unguarded machinery under the control of poorly trained operatives covers it.

 

[Knobhead]

That will be until someone is injured and the HSE are all over you like a rash asking you why you worked live

We had a guy badly burnt by arc flash, they didn’t get involved. Surprising I know but it saved us a lot of hassle and paperwork.

 

[shanky887614]

We had a guy badly burnt by arc flash, they didn’t get involved. Surprising I know but it saved us a lot of hassle and paperwork.

i thought the hse only really got involved if there was a death, someone suing the company or enviromental hazard rtc

i got a nice scar on my hand, when i cut it then accepted all blame in paperwork e.g accident book etc (filled it in only because boss was ****ing me off over it)

so he got an earful and a lot of emails etc, if he didnt moan etc it would of been a case of take more care next time and carry on.

 

[Bobster]

i thought the hse only really got involved if there was a death, someone suing the company or enviromental hazard rtc

They can get involved for any reason they like, although as you say they only really step in if it's serious.

 

[Pete999]

We had a guy badly burnt by arc flash, they didn’t get involved. Surprising I know but it saved us a lot of hassle and paperwork.

I once committed the cardinal sin of issuing 2 permits to work on the same LV system nearly blinded a jointer. so I don't take chances anymore, it was a humbling experience HSE all over me APs ticket revoked for 6 months.nearly causing someone else to be killed brings safety into perspective. been there done that got the T shirt never again.

 

[shanky887614]

I once committed the cardinal sin of issuing 2 permits to work on the same LV system nearly blinded a jointer. so I don't take chances anymore, it was a humbling experience HSE all over me APs ticket revoked for 6 months.nearly causing someone else to be killed brings safety into perspective. been there done that got the T shirt never again.

if you dont mind me asking, how did the two permits cause the issue?

im not sure i follow how it happend?

 

[cobrauk]

I have not read all the posts but from the first page it would seem that the question being asked would apply to all 3 phase single phase Consumer units, so are you all saying we shouldn't work in them? as apart from new installations there is no means of isolating the supply from the meter is there ?
Or am I not reading the question correctly ?

 

[Pete999]

if you dont mind me asking, how did the two permits cause the issue?

im not sure i follow how it happend?

Closed one powered pack up with one permit still valid and guys still working, not the right thing to do, it was a long long time ago but I still think about it when ever I lock off and isolate, so when people say we do it every , work live that is, it makes me see red, no I don't mind you asking at all if it makes people think the all the better as far as I'm concerned

 

[Andy78]

i thought the hse only really got involved if there was a death, someone suing the company or enviromental hazard rtc

i got a nice scar on my hand, when i cut it then accepted all blame in paperwork e.g accident book etc (filled it in only because boss was ****ing me off over it)

so he got an earful and a lot of emails etc, if he didnt moan etc it would of been a case of take more care next time and carry on.

List of reportable incidents and injuries .......
Reportable incidents - RIDDOR - HSE

 

[snowhead]

I have not read all the posts but from the first page it would seem that the question being asked would apply to all 3 phase single phase Consumer units, so are you all saying we shouldn't work in them? as apart from new installations there is no means of isolating the supply from the meter is there ?
Or am I not reading the question correctly ?

If the live incoming cables /terminals are adequately shielded, as most have been for a long time and your own risk assessment doesn't throw up any other hazards then yes it's O.K to work in such boards.

 

[shanky887614]

List of reportable incidents and injuries .......
Reportable incidents - RIDDOR - HSE

it wasnt reportable under riddor, i carried on working and was back in again the next day.

i just got a little scar to remind me to wear gloves why doing trunking

i filled it in because boss was being a cee you next tuesday so i filled it in.

anyone looking at it can see its a joke.

first aid administered - none

days off work - none

lol