Hi all! Old(ish) spark looking to go it alone but unsure where to start?

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Hi.

I thought I would introduce myself on here in the hope to gain some valuable information on setting out on my own.
I'm 42 and have been an electrician for over 20 years in the commercial/industrial sector with a small amount of experience in the domestic sector.
I was furloughed during the first lockdown last March for 4 months so I started looking around for work and found a local firm who specialise in "compliance" in the domestic/commercial sector so I decided to jump on board for a change of pace.

A funny thing happened.....I found that I absolutely love doing EICR's and the remedials that often follow which surprised me as I always thought my passion was commercial/industrial install work.
This kind of work is really satisfying as not only are you inspecting an installation but you're finding faults on a daily basis and it's figuring out the faults that I really enjoy.
I have also found that I'm learning a lot about my trade which surprises me as I didn't realise how in depth these EICR's could get, also, looking at the previous schedule of test results, these tests have more than likely been done whilst sat in a van!

Anyway, on to the reason for my post:

I'm starting to think that I should use my experience and skills for my own benefit instead of someone else (who makes all the money) so I'm considering starting out on my own as a sole trader but I've always been "cards-in" so am unsure what I'll need to get going.
I will stay in my PAYE role to begin with and do all my own work at weekends and see if it pays off.

I am aware that I'll need public liability insurance as well as public indemnity but I don't know to which values (2 mil or 5 mil, 250,000 or 1 mil respectively).
Do I go with NAPIT or NICEIC and to which level? (Do I even need to do this as I'm an "approved electrician" so can sign my own work off).
I'll need an accountant for sure and I'll need to register for self assessment.

Can any of you guys guide me in the right direction as I'll be approaching some estate agents soon and would like to be armed with the best knowledge possible to put myself in a positive light.

This is a very daunting step for me as I've never considered doing this before!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

M

 

[telectrix]

part p of the building regs. stipulates what works are notifiable works. to notify without paying out a fortune you need to be niceic or one of the others. you'll need a couple of jobs for assessment, current copies of regs, H&S policy, risk assessment forms, complaints procedures, etc,.

insurances. PL usually 2million. PI 1/4 million.

hmrc will give you a UTR number for self-assessment.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

part p of the building regs. stipulates what works are notifiable works. to notify without paying out a fortune you need to be niceic or one of the others. you'll need a couple of jobs for assessment, current copies of regs, H&S policy, risk assessment forms, complaints procedures, etc,.

insurances. PL usually 2million. PI 1/4 million.

hmrc will give you a UTR number for self-assessment.

Hi.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Ah, I didn't consider risk assessment, health and safety policy or a complaints procedure! I'll have to look into to this to see how I'll put such a thing together (this is the issue with working cards in all my life, never been exposed to the paperwork side of things).
I have all the regs books and all my paper qualifications to hand.

I know I can make this work but it's really daunting!

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Any advice on how best to approach an estate agent to get on their books?

 

[telectrix]

risk assessment, health and safety policy or a complaints procedure!

these can mostly be downloaded from internet. niceic will tell you what they want. you have a choice with them,,, Domestic Installer status which allows only domestic works under their banner, or Approved Contractor, which covers commercial and industrial as well. not sure about napit or elecsa.

notifiable works are basically:
1. new circuit/s
2. Consumer Unit fitting
3. Any work in special location/s e.g. bathroms.

you can download (or just read) pert p from "planning portal". part p only applies to dwellings,

 

[telectrix]

Any advice on how best to approach an estate agent to get on their books?

or draft a generic letter and send to all agents in your area. EICRs for landlords are a big issue at the moment with the new law.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

View attachment 63992
or draft a generic letter and send to all agents in your area. EICRs for landlords are a big issue at the moment with the new law.

Yeah, It's exactly what I'm doing at the moment for my current employer I just want to cut out the middleman and step out into the wide yonder on my own and be my own boss for once!

I'll do just that, sent letters/emails out as you suggest. Nervous about this but I have to try!

Thanks for your help!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Follow any letter you send out with a telephone call, otherwise you are just another spark looking for some work, I would also try to meet the Estate/Letting Agent personally.

 

[Deleted account]

Any advice on how best to approach an estate agent to get on their books?

Walk in say hello! They’ve got loads on there books and deadline for rental EICR is approaching.

Ive been contacted by loads of estate agents and turned them down as I’m unable to fit them in.

they will snap your hand off, but they will probably want you to be registered.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Follow any letter you send out with a telephone call, otherwise you are just another spark looking for some work, I would also try to meet the Estate/Letting Agent personally.

I planned to pop in to my local estate agent last week as it happens but I thought they wouldn't appreciate an unannounced visit so didn't go in. I keep second guessing myself all the time instead of just grabbing the bull by the horns and doing it!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Grab the bull by the horns, wrestle him to the ground and don't let him up until he gives in. ?

 

[Deleted account]

Addition to above. Don’t go cheap. You don’t need to.

an example £50 per consumer unit plus £25 - £35 per circuit depending on size, age, access ability etc....

so a flat with one Cu and 6 circuit best case scenario £200.00

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Walk in say hello! They’ve got loads on there books and deadline for rental EICR is approaching.

Ive been contacted by loads of estate agents and turned them down as I’m unable to fit them in.

they will snap your hand off, but they will probably want you to be registered.

Ah, So what happens when the deadline expires? I presume all the work will dry up? I don't want to jump into this at the very end and "miss the boat" so to speak!

Also, getting registered isn't a quick process so I'm sure that by the time I do get assessed, it'll be around the time (April I presume) that work fades away......

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Grab the bull by the horns, wrestle him to the ground and don't let him up until he gives in. ?

I'll walk right in there with a red rag....

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Addition to above. Don’t go cheap. You don’t need to.

an example £50 per consumer unit plus £25 - £35 per circuit depending on size, age, access ability etc....

so a flat with one Cu and 6 circuit best case scenario £200.00

Glad you touched on prices to honest, another avenue I'm unfamiliar with!

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

I do a LOT of consumer unit upgrades and always wonder what the gaffer charges....better in my pocket than his!

 

[Deleted account]

Ah, So what happens when the deadline expires? I presume all the work will dry up? I don't want to jump into this at the very end and "miss the boat" so to speak!

Also, getting registered isn't a quick process so I'm sure that by the time I do get assessed, it'll be around the time (April I presume) that work fades away......

It won’t Dry up.
we are barely coping with the quantity now, if fact we are not. It will over run. Then it’s change of tenancy, every five years or less dependant on what s given and new properties entering the buy to let.

This has permanently increased the work load.

im not just getting existing Rental properties. It’s new rental properties and the tenants cannot move in until the EICR is done.

I would guess that 80% of landlord never had an EICR before this new reg came into force.

 

[Deleted account]

I do a LOT of consumer unit upgrades and always wonder what the gaffer charges....better in my pocket than his!

Consumer unit swap minimum £600.00. Always aim for £300- £350 profit.

different areas different sparks charge differently.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

It won’t Dry up.
we are barely coping with the quantity now, if fact we are not. It will over run. Then it’s change of tenancy, every five years or less dependant on what s given and new properties entering the buy to let.

This has permanently increased the work load.

im not just getting existing Rental properties. It’s new rental properties and the tenants cannot move in until the EICR is done.

I would guess that 80% of landlord never had an EICR before this new reg came into force.

That is very encouraging! I keep looking around at all the apartments/houses and thinking about the 5 year/new tenant thing knowing it needs to be done.

I got pulled a builder randomly the other week, I was changing a consumer unit (for a change) and he asked me if I worked for myself or not. When I explained I worked for an employer, he started on about how foolish I was to be doing that when I could be doing it for myself . Told me I'll never look back and that I should go for it. He really got to me that day and I told the wife that night that I wanted to work for myself.
She's very cautious though and is worried about bills being paid etc......I tried to reassure her but I suppose she's right to be a little concerned as I have a steady income now so why risk it.

Thing is, if you don't take risks in life you never move forward!

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

Consumer unit swap minimum £600.00. Always aim for £300- £350 profit.

different areas different sparks charge differently.

I see it the same as you, overheads have to be paid for so the price reflects that.....

 

[telectrix]

Addition to above. Don’t go cheap. You don’t need to.

an example £50 per consumer unit plus £25 - £35 per circuit depending on size, age, access ability etc....

so a flat with one Cu and 6 circuit best case scenario £200.00

that would be more like £150 up here.

 

[Deleted account]

That is very encouraging! I keep looking around at all the apartments/houses and thinking about the 5 year/new tenant thing knowing it needs to be done.

I got pulled a builder randomly the other week, I was changing a consumer unit (for a change) and he asked me if I worked for myself or not. When I explained I worked for an employer, he started on about how foolish I was to be doing that when I could be doing it for myself . Told me I'll never look back and that I should go for it. He really got to me that day and I told the wife that night that I wanted to work for myself.
She's very cautious though and is worried about bills being paid etc......I tried to reassure her but I suppose she's right to be a little concerned as I have a steady income now so why risk it.

Thing is, if you don't take risks in life you never move forward!

totally agree with, you will never look back. This is absolutely the best time there has ever been to do it. I went on my own 7 years ago. I was also 42. Just had 49th birthday.

from day one stowed out.

I got delivered 5000 leaflets professionally done.

big mistake. Should have only done 1000.

got a full rewire from that on my first week.

stowed out ever since.

dispite being rediculously busy for last 7 years, it’s even more busy now.

honestly if your good and you know your good. Do it.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

that would be more like £150 up here.

I'm in Manchester so between 120 - 150 sounds about right....

 

[Deleted account]

I'm in Manchester so between 120 - 150 sounds about right....

Admittedly I hate doing EICRs so have started charging more, but people keep saying yes.

 

[pc1966]

Remember that working on your own has a lot of overheads (costs & time) so you need to be charging about double what you need for a reasonable salary.

Speak to an accountant about what is needed, they should be able to handle most of the stuff (for a fee...) in terms of tax and PAYE management. They can also advise you about trade off going sole, or Ltd company, etc as well as to VAT or not to VAT (short version, keep below threshold unless you can go comfortably above it to pay for extra paperwork).

As above, don't get in to a race to the bottom on pricing, keep to what is reasonable in your area for reputable sparks.

EICR are in such a race but demand is high, so make sure you sell yourself as doing it properly and fixing trivial things included in the cost (e.g. odd cracked socket) - give folk a reason to pay you a working wage instead of a drive-by monkey filling a form and not actually doing the safety work needed.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Glad you touched on prices to honest, another avenue I'm unfamiliar with!

If it's purely EICR's then you don't need to be registered. However, If you want to get the remedial work as well then it's definitely going to be worth your while to get registered with a scheme. Basically it's NICEIC or Napit now as Stroma are part of Napit and I think elecsa is with the NICEIC (Certsure I think??!).

To be registered with a scheme you need the following ...

1. Public liability insurance (£2 million minimum). You dont need professional indemnity insurance, I am not too sure of the difference though.
2. Health and safety Policy. Don't let this title frighten you, it is just the same piece of paper used each year, just with the date changed.

3. Risk assessment template. Again, for a small one man band this is rarely used. I dont mean I don't make risk assessments, I do, however they tend to be automatic when you approach a job. I fill this in a little differently once a year when I have my assessment.


4. Up to date copy of BS7671. They will not accept an out of date copy.

5. In date calibration document for your multi function tester.

6. Complaints form, complaints procedure and complaints ledger. I just cant seem to attach them here, sorry.

7. Up to date copy of the building regulations. I have always shown them the Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet which they have always been happy with, see link Building regulations explanatory booklet (2005 amended reprint), Office of the Deputy Prime Minister - Publication Index | NBS - https://www.thenbs.com/PublicationIndex/documents/details?Pub=ODPM&DocID=276909
but this may be out of date. Worst case scenario is they ask you to find it online and send them a picture showing them you have found it.

8. Up to date copy of Part P approved document.

Approved Document P - Part P - Electrical Safety - Planning Portal

Details of Part P (Approved Document P) of the Building Regulations

www.planningportal.co.uk

9. Evidence of learning.
This can be a tricky one for a small sole trader. Sometimes I don't have anything to show them and I am just honest. They suggest one or 2 sights to go on for some online training and that's that. It's never failed me. I do however usually have some simple bits to show them like an online manual handling course I have completed or a working at heights on line course. They are free and they keep the assessor happy.

10. Copy of the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) that you completed for the job you have carried out that you will be assessed on.

11. Have all the bits above ready and to hand. You will be stressed on your first assessment so don't add to that stress by not having things ready and organised.

12. Brush up on some of the BS7671 basics as they will ask you some basic questions about the regs.
I always quickly go through zones in bathrooms, safe isolation procedure and the correct testing order as these seem to be regular questions. Oh yes and they tend to ask me for some examples of where other parts of the building regulations relate to electrics.

For example part M... heights of sockets. can't think of any more, but I will do before my assessment!

13. You will pass. Even if you have a non-conformity, which is likely on your first assessment, they will simply ask you to remedy it and then send a picture into them, they will then pass you.

14. I forgot your qualification! Not sure about this as it has changed since I registered. Looks like you have to have level 3 now, but I am not sure.

15. This is for anything I have forgotten that the other members will fill in ?

 

[pc1966]

She's very cautious though and is worried about bills being paid etc......I tried to reassure her but I suppose she's right to be a little concerned as I have a steady income now so why risk it.

There will be occasional jobs you don't get paid for - that is part of the overheads you have to allow for. But if there is enough work you will be fine.

Also if your wife can handle some of the paperwork in any spare time it is a massive advantage, saves you doing that instead of the electrics you get paid for. Remember if you don't invoice you won't get paid!

Obvious I know, but I have had to chase some folk before to actually pay them!

 

[telectrix]

Admittedly I hate doing EICRs so have started charging more, but people keep saying yes.

well of down there though. all us silly buggers from up north coming down for cream teas, spending our hard-earned.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Happyhippydad said the important bit in his first sentence, if you just do EICR's to get yourself started, you don't need to be registered.

 

[telectrix]

happy. PI insurance is essential for EICRS. it covers you against cocking something up ( giving bad professional advice, etc.). PL just covers you for damage to propery claims.

 

[pc1966]

Happyhippydad said the important bit in his first sentence, if you just do EICR's to get yourself started, you don't need to be registered.

True, but they should aim to be able to do any follow-on corrective work instead of subbing it out.

 

[loz2754]

If it's purely EICR's then you don't need to be registered.

Most estate agents will be looking for registered electricians.

You dont need professional indemnity insurance

NICEIC require you to have professional indemnity insurance if you want to be included on the NICEIC register for electricians who do EICRs.
It's a good idea anyway, as when you sign an EICR, you are giving a professional opinion as to the safety or otherwise of the installation. The insurance will help protect you by covering legal fees if you're sued.

@happyhippydad - a very helpful post indeed, very comprehensive.

 

[Mike Johnson]

happy. PI insurance is essential for EICRS. it covers you against cocking something up ( giving bad professional advice, etc.). PL just covers you for damage to propery claims.

If you are commissioned by an Estate Agent you could work under their PI insurance, but still advisable to have your own.

 

[Deleted account]

well of down there though. all us silly buggers from up north coming down for cream teas, spending our hard-earned.

Tennants are not to well of who live hear, but landlords who don’t live hear are well of.

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

totally agree with, you will never look back. This is absolutely the best time there has ever been to do it. I went on my own 7 years ago. I was also 42. Just had 49th birthday.

from day one stowed out.

I got delivered 5000 leaflets professionally done.

big mistake. Should have only done 1000.

got a full rewire from that on my first week.

stowed out ever since.

dispite being rediculously busy for last 7 years, it’s even more busy now.

honestly if your good and you know your good. Do it.

You've really inspired me with this info Pete! I read it and felt that my efforts will be rewarded especially seen as though you started out at exactly the same age as me!

Happy Birthday by the way! ?

I really do take pride in my work and enjoy the good feeling of the customer when the job is complete and I've handed over after explaining how their new "stuff" works.

I am a good electrician (not the quickest out there if I'm honest) but I take my time and make sure it's right first time. I've seen many sparks who rush through jobs but they end up being messy and badly installed with many short-cuts taken. I prefer to take that little longer. I don't see it as a bad thing really as I care about the end result.
I had the opportunity to take the cover off a CU a colleague installed a few weeks back and was shocked at the state of how it had been done. Really messy. It's no wonder he can get through a CU upgrade in less than 2 hours with work like that. I just couldn't put my name to that sort of workmanship.

It's even more important when working for yourself I guess, customer MUST be happy.....

 

[loz2754]

You've really inspired me with this info Pete! I read it and felt that my efforts will be rewarded especially seen as though you started out at exactly the same age as me!

Happy Birthday by the way! ?

I really do take pride in my work and enjoy the good feeling of the customer when the job is complete and I've handed over after explaining how their new "stuff" works.

I am a good electrician (not the quickest out there if I'm honest) but I take my time and make sure it's right first time. I've seen many sparks who rush through jobs but they end up being messy and badly installed with many short-cuts taken. I prefer to take that little longer. I don't see it as a bad thing really as I care about the end result.
I had the opportunity to take the cover off a CU a colleague installed a few weeks back and was shocked at the state of how it had been done. Really messy. It's no wonder he can get through a CU upgrade in less than 2 hours with work like that. I just couldn't put my name to that sort of workmanship.

It's even more important when working for yourself I guess, customer MUST be happy.....

Good to see someone with high standards. You will do well. It may take some time to get established, but all it takes is a few regular contacts.
Another thing to consider - I don't know how many sparkies on here have a website. But I have found it to be essential. Doesn't have to be elaborate, but can help showcase your talents and help people to find you.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Customers don't generally get to see inside their CU and are happy if it all works as it should, your own work ethic is up to you, but when working for yourself you can't be too pedantic about neat and tidy installations when the CU is a replacement sometimes it impossible to get a neat solution as the route is dictated by the existing installation, different for a completely new installation then there is no excuse for an untidy install.

 

[telectrix]

You've really inspired me with this info Pete! I read it and felt that my efforts will be rewarded especially seen as though you started out at exactly the same age as me!

Happy Birthday by the way! ?

I really do take pride in my work and enjoy the good feeling of the customer when the job is complete and I've handed over after explaining how their new "stuff" works.

I am a good electrician (not the quickest out there if I'm honest) but I take my time and make sure it's right first time. I've seen many sparks who rush through jobs but they end up being messy and badly installed with many short-cuts taken. I prefer to take that little longer. I don't see it as a bad thing really as I care about the end result.
I had the opportunity to take the cover off a CU a colleague installed a few weeks back and was shocked at the state of how it had been done. Really messy. It's no wonder he can get through a CU upgrade in less than 2 hours with work like that. I just couldn't put my name to that sort of workmanship.

It's even more important when working for yourself I guess, customer MUST be happy.....

yous not the only one that's a bit slow. takes me almost 10 minutes to chase out a double box these days. but at least i have an excuse. geriatric and senile at 74. ???

 

[M-B-Electrical-Services]

yous not the only one that's a bit slow. takes me almost 10 minutes to chase out a double box these days. but at least i have an excuse. geriatric and senile at 74. ???

I'm senile at 42!!

 

[Mike Johnson]

yous not the only one that's a bit slow. takes me almost 10 minutes to chase out a double box these days. but at least i have an excuse. geriatric and senile at 74. ???

Why are you still chasing out box's at 74 you must be mad or very annoyed at least.