Electrical Safe - write to your MP

[Octopus]

For all you Elecsa, NICEIC and Napit members.

Its time we all contacted our MP's to try and generate momentum in Parliament for tighter regulation of our industry, to protect our jobs and our "trade" suppliers.

I've drafted a letter (attached) please feel free to amend etc.

Here is a way to identify your MP:

Contacting your MP - UK Parliament

Another way:

Lists of MPs - UK Parliament

Whether you cut and paste onto an email or print out on your headed paper lets all do this - its in our interest.

Please post when you've sent your letter.

ThanksView attachment 5450

 

[steve58]

Letter ready to send and faxed copy also

 

[BluSparx]

done

you can do it online at WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free enter your postcode and it allows you to send online

I have done to my mp, local councillor and also MEP's oh and Baroness Tonge (who'se daughter was electrocuted through a poor installation done by a builder in 2004)

 

[IQ Electrical]

For all you Elecsa, NICEIC and Napit members.

Its time we all contacted our MP's to try and generate momentum in Parliament for tighter regulation of our industry, to protect our jobs and our "trade" suppliers.

I've drafted a letter (attached) please feel free to amend etc.

Here is a way to identify your MP:

Contacting your MP - UK Parliament

Another way:

Lists of MPs - UK Parliament

Whether you cut and paste onto an email or print out on your headed paper lets all do this - its in our interest.

Please post when you've sent your letter.

ThanksView attachment 5450

Hi Murdoch, well done!

I've corrected/amended a few things (in red) but of course it's your decision whether you change anything!

 

[mattmoo1974]

LOL i bought a CCU in screwfix/Electricfix and was nt asked for anything, The next week when i popped in to get something, Big pile of MK double face plates on specail, i thought i ll have a few packs of them, to be told "No you ve gotta be registered with us to buy those" Had to take all my certs in to be allowed to buy anything that is on special WHAT A JOKE!

 

[Geoffsd]

Done, thanks

 

[colshaws]

Sent a copy

 

[johnboy6083]

i think thats a fair edit IQ

 

[RWJ]

Just tried to start an online petition...... The new government has removed the ability to create online petitions via number10.gov.uk.

Online petitions to the Coalition Government will be moving to DirectGov in Late 2011

GREAT!!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Nice idea......but I still feel that if it remains legal for any tom,dick or abdul to carry out ANY electrical work it is pointless trying to resrict sales...I also would feel a tad hypocritical calling for any DIY electrics to be made illegal when I have on many occasions done major mechanical work on my vehicles,including safety parts like brakes and suspension.
If we go down this route the nanny state finally takes over the asylum.......if a DIYer wants to attempt electrical work in his own home thats his look out.

 

[geoffa]

"if a DIYer wants to attempt electrical work in his own home thats his look out"

that's a surprising comment from an arms member.

so if some have a go hero takes a chance with his electrics and kills somebody else in the process, like his child or a guest or a new owner, then are you saying that's acceptable?

 

[BluSparx]

I sent the email to my local MP, who has responded already and agreed with what the contents were he is now writing to the minister to get it brought up in parliament, even been asked for some pictures of what I have encountered on my travels

Looking good

 

[RWJ]

I'll try our local MP... but he seems more concerned with horse racing?? As that's the only thing he's brought up in the house since being elected

 

[BluSparx]

Use the Newbury Racecourse incident as an example

 

[IQ Electrical]

I'll try our local MP... but he seems more concerned with horse racing?? As that's the only thing he's brought up in the house since being elected

Well if Part P was extended to cover race courses the electrocution of 2 horses might have been avoided...

 

[RWJ]

Use the Newbury Racecourse incident as an example

%*^%&$%$% I've just sent the flippin email!!!!!

DOH I should have included that.... so obvious and it would have got his attention... DOH

I'll get one of the other local lads to send a revised "nag" version!

Thanks
Blu

 

[mogga]

I have emailed ALL prospective candidates in my area both on this point and on why are government funded progects being used to "Create local jobs" whan the concrete for M74 comes from southeren ireland Labour at prison M74 Sufferin general is mainly agency paying below the rate and no statutory benefits like Holiday pay ect ect ect Only had 1 reply from 12 sent she asked for my home address so she could respond Im still waiting a responce from her 5 years ago about the CSA so Personaly I dont hold much hope

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I have come across some of the governments own reports concluding that the Part P scheme has not worked.
I am in the middle of discussions with others as recently as last night and will be composing a letter and a report which will challenge the existing industry in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

"if a DIYer wants to attempt electrical work in his own home thats his look out"

that's a surprising comment from an arms member.

so if some have a go hero takes a chance with his electrics and kills somebody else in the process, like his child or a guest or a new owner, then are you saying that's acceptable?

I've thought about this long and hard,as this debate has been around for years. And the conclusion I have come to is that electrical work in homes should not be restricted....here are my reasons.

People do all kinds of DIY,there is a long tradition of having a go in the UK...it is up to the individual to decide if they are competent to carry out that DIY,if they cause harm to themselves or others in that process then they should be held accountable. There are many perfectly capable DIYers who can carry out electrical work safely,they should not all be tarnished with the same brush. I go back to my point about cars....all you people shouting for electrics to be more regulated,how many of you have done the brakes on your vehicles to save a few quid?I'll wager a pretty high percentage........almost certainly perfectly safely...you make sure because you and your family are the ones at risk,would you accept the motor trade saying you weren't competent,and only they should be permitted to work on cars?.....I'd feel a hypocrite voting for this when I have carried out many equally hazardous DIY jobs outside of electrics which are served by other trades.
The same applies to DIY everything else....if the individual makes a balls of it and causes harm,then come down on that individual.....but dont let the nanny state wrap everything in cotton wool,where will it end?

OK,as I appear to be in a minority of one on this I thought I'd better explain myself....That said I do respect the views expressed on this by all and know it is well intended,I just dont agree.

 

[Electricalserv]

Although I want it to be governed, I do feel as though another obstacle like 'electrical safe' could just be another money makeing racket in the end. Its not going to stop people doing their own work. How can it when nobody would know otherwise.

It will be another sum of outgoings along with the schemes membership.

 

[madmac]

It's all about policing of industry standards and competence, and I also think this would potentially create another money making scheme. that said i do think that we as electricians have a duty to ourselves and our colleagues to at least try and make our industry better.
Certainly regulatory bodies like NICEIC and the like, should be doing just that! but they all have a vested interest in making money first and foremost!!!
One regulatory body answerable to govt./unions/electricians might be one route but everyone needs to be in agreement and that is always the stumbling block unfortunately in our industry.

 

[Octopus]

Hum some interesting views and we are entitled to views.

For those who are against any moves to tighten up the system, are you members of schemes, and if so why? Just yesterday I looked at a job were the previous sparky had added an outside socket to a BS3036 board - makes you wonder why we follow the rules we have!


Just emailed my letter and this was included in the auto response:

"If you have not had a response within 14 days, please email again with a reminder."

The clock is ticking

 

[mpspark]

I've thought about this long and hard,as this debate has been around for years. And the conclusion I have come to is that electrical work in homes should not be restricted....here are my reasons.

People do all kinds of DIY,there is a long tradition of having a go in the UK...it is up to the individual to decide if they are competent to carry out that DIY,if they cause harm to themselves or others in that process then they should be held accountable. There are many perfectly capable DIYers who can carry out electrical work safely,they should not all be tarnished with the same brush. I go back to my point about cars....all you people shouting for electrics to be more regulated,how many of you have done the brakes on your vehicles to save a few quid?I'll wager a pretty high percentage........almost certainly perfectly safely...you make sure because you and your family are the ones at risk,would you accept the motor trade saying you weren't competent,and only they should be permitted to work on cars?.....I'd feel a hypocrite voting for this when I have carried out many equally hazardous DIY jobs outside of electrics which are served by other trades.
The same applies to DIY everything else....if the individual makes a balls of it and causes harm,then come down on that individual.....but dont let the nanny state wrap everything in cotton wool,where will it end?

OK,as I appear to be in a minority of one on this I thought I'd better explain myself....That said I do respect the views expressed on this by all and know it is well intended,I just dont agree.

I have to say I agree with you to a degree. I am all for people being accountable for what they do, however I have no confidence in this ,or any other government to actually do this.
They don't seem to want to hold offenders to account anymore. They seem to prefer to stop everybody from doing things rather than coming down on the actual offenders that abuse the system.
I hear that some local authorities are now trying to make drinking in public illegal, just because some ****heads cause trouble in town centres at chucking out time. I guess it is easier to punish everyone rather than have to deal with the few...
What about publicly prosecuting the ones that refuse to abide by 'the system' and allow all other 'competent / non abusers' to get on with their job, regardless of whether they are a qualified tradesman or an experienced / competent diyer?

 

[BluSparx]

Just had a reply from my MP wanting photos as evidence for House of Commons and Minister

 

[Electricalserv]

Just had a reply from my MP wanting photos as evidence for House of Commons and Minister

Its all well and good showing photos of bad installs but unless they are from after the introduction of Part P they are useless.

 

[RWJ]

Well 4 Days have passed....
All I got was an automated response that stated he hasn't got time to answer emails if it's urgent then visit one of his "surgeries",
went on his webiste list of surgeries in Feb and March nothing else listed!!!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I came across an installation some years ago in a Council house.
The tennant had installed extra sockets in the kitchen and one of the bed rooms, he had also installed an RCD socket-outlet in an outside cupboard and some external lights around the house.
The Council susequently conducted a 're-wire' to the property along with a number of other properties in the area.
A PIR was conducted and the faults found with the Council's work were: lack of Bus Bar shroud in CU, lack of identification to switch wires and lack of protection to cable entries on CU. Apparently the CUs came without shrouds, and they had to be purchased separately, which the contractors were unaware of.
The single fault with the tennant's work, was that he had used T&E clipped to the outside of the house to supply one of the exterior lights.
The contractors installed the shroud, identified the switch wires at the switches, not at the fittings, and managed to swop over the up and downstairs rings when installing grommets to the cable entries on the CU.
The tennant re-routed the T&E so as that none was external.
No paperwork other than the PIR was issued.
Given a choice, I would employ the DIyer tennant, rather than the 'qualified' contractors who conducted the 're-wire'.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I'd like to think that was the 'exception to the rule'.

 

[Geoffsd]

I have just received a reply from my M.P.

He agrees that this is an issue that should be taken seriously.

He goes on to say that private individuals are permitted to buy such components.

However, he is assured by Bournemouth Borough Council that - quote - "There are laws and guidelines in place that prevent unqualified individuals from installing these devices. Thus, an untrained member of the public would be required by law to employ a registered electrician in order to install such a component, or else they would be in violation of the law"- unquote.

So I suppose it's just that the law isn't being enforced, as with so many that are difficult or even impossible to enforce..

 

[RWJ]

Sent an email and Letter....... No reply.... Not that I'm expecting one!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Unfortunately either the MP, or the Borough Council is talking out of their bottom.
There is no law requiring anyone to employ a registered electrician.

 

[Wiredspark]

Recently, very recently, in Glasgow a HANDYMAN left a flex with bared conductors on a plug top lying in a house. A child took this to his room and was electricuted. Although I whole heartedly agree with the mechanic argument, this really really pains me.

edit: Im going to add that the child, a toddler, was electricuted to death.

 

[KFH]

I have no strong opinions about DIYers vs Qualified electricians but Part P is a mess. It is never enforced so those of us who want to do a good job have to pay to be registered while those who don't give a dam have lower overheads.

My view is that Part P needs to be abolished and a gas safe type system put in its place with more stringent controls than apply to the schemes at the moment. But as a minimum get rid of Part P.

Always write to your MP and if you don't get a response send another letter reminding them and enclosing a copy of your original letter. If that does not work phone their office and ask for an appointment at one of their surgeries. Most of them are too worried about having to submit receipts for their expenses so you have to keep on their case if they are unresponsive.
If requires a lot of effort to get things moving so one letter will not do it, we have to keep the pressure on them to raise the issue on their priority list.

 

[Geoffsd]

Unfortunately either the MP, or the Borough Council is talking out of their bottom.
.

I wonder which. So unlike either.

 

[Markthisoneout]

When B&Q issue advice notices that state:

"As of 1 January 2005, changes to the Building Regulations affected domestic electrical installations in England and Wales. You don't need to be a qualified electrician to make changes to your home's electrical system, but the work must be done in accordance with the standards in the Regulations."

it's hardly surprising that DIYers do their own work - they are being told they can!

It is made worse by advice pages like this on their website which give superficial guidance on laying SWA cable for an outdoor lighting circuit and without any consideration of the load, cable length, type of supply etc, etc.

B&Q Online: From Kitchens & Bathrooms to Sheds & Paving; plus planning tools

Someone needs to get a grip of the whole licence/certification business or we are all out of a job.

 

[RWJ]

About 6 weeks ago I sent my MP an email then a week later I popped a letter through his office door.

NO REPLY or even an acknowledgement. I'm sure if it was regarding horse racing then he'd have been on the phone pronto!!