Notifiable works.

[Plonker 3]

I looked into it a while back, the process is quite complicated and as has been said, needs the permission of DCLG and they only open up for new applicant scheme operators once in a blue moon

But if the info is available to start one then surely at least getting the wheels rolling showing the other scams that people are taking it seriously and doing it not for profit will maybe wake them up an kick them up the backside

 

[trev]

If you gather the evidence along with enough electricians backing your safety concerns for work covered by existing organisations, as well as a plan for a new organisation, would they allow an application then do you think?

But if the info is available to start one then surely at least getting the wheels rolling showing the other scams that people are taking it seriously and doing it not for profit will maybe wake them up an kick them up the backside

Both great points. Let me think about them overnight lads.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

But if the info is available to start one then surely at least getting the wheels rolling showing the other scams that people are taking it seriously and doing it not for profit will maybe wake them up an kick them up the backside

the only thing that will wake up the scams Dillon is to throw them down the well...

 

[7029 dave]

IMO its gone too far now, you have to spend £'s to do days work, feel sorry for you all.!!

 

[Plonker 3]

the only thing that will wake up the scams Dillon is to throw them down the well...

We all know that, but sometimes you have to play the game to get what you want before causing a massive downfall.

 

[trev]

IMO its gone too far now, you have to spend £'s to do days work, feel sorry for you all.!!

So we sit back and continue to let it all go to hell in a handcart?
A lot of us aren't prepared to do that mate.

 

[7029 dave]

So we sit back and continue to let it all go to hell in a handcart?
A lot of us aren't prepared to do that mate.

Trevor, don't blame you but what the hell can you all do about it.? !!!

 

[trev]

Trevor, don't blame you but what the hell can you all do about it.? !!!

Without the lifeblood of the almighty £ all businesses fail mate. Losses will kill a business slowly like a long term debilitating illness, bad cash flow will kill them quickly.
Without the leeches the trade can be put back in our hands. As I've said many times, the situation we have presently exists because we have allowed it to

 

[7029 dave]

Without the lifeblood of the almighty £ all businesses fail mate. Losses will kill a business slowly like a long term debilitating illness, bad cash flow will kill them quickly.
Without the leeches the trade can be put back in our hands. As I've said many times, the situation we have presently exists because we have allowed it to

Am I right in saying this all come about because some mp's relation got killed in 2004 ish ( part p etc)was born, it was an done deal passed through parliament how could you stop that.? That's only my take on it, or have I got this wrong.

 

[trev]

Am I right in saying this all come about because some mp's relation got killed in 2004 ish ( part p etc)was born, it was an done deal passed through parliament how could you stop that.? That's only my take on it, or have I got this wrong.

Part P is here to stay, I make no mistake about that. The best anyone can hope for is some sort of amendment to it. What I, and many others, object to is the way the trade is being steered by the very organisations that were supposed to be upholding standards.
It's them we want rid of and there's only one way to do that and that is to drive them out of business.

 

[davesparks]

In my mind what we are working towards achieving is a single register which works along the lines of the gas safe scheme.
They are not allowed to profit, actually have teeth when it comes to dealing with bad work, anyone can report bad work to them and they investigate.

 

[trev]

Long pointy teeth are essential if any scheme is going to have credibility.

 

[7029 dave]

I really feel for you all!!, I get great joy from you all still bashing away at it and listening to your daily task's, a trade that still very close to my heart, but am glad I am away from all the politics of it.!! Happy now just to fix meters to the wall. lol

 

[davesparks]

I'm slowly drifting away from the domestics myself, gathering a few more commercial clients.

Plus I have a fireworks business we are slowly rejuvenating after the recession, when that can afford to pay me I'll be packing the tools away.
(If you ever think H&S and insurance is a ball ache in this game, try storage and transportation of cat4 fireworks!)

 

[UNG]

Part P is here to stay, I make no mistake about that. The best anyone can hope for is some sort of amendment to it. What I, and many others, object to is the way the trade is being steered by the very organisations that were supposed to be upholding standards.
It's them we want rid of and there's only one way to do that and that is to drive them out of business.

Part P was brought into law as a knee jerk reaction by a Labour government that was supposed to improve public safety couple this with some government idea we had a massive skills shortage and what have ended up with the mess we have today. Part P as it stands needs to be abolished and if it is really needed then a new Part P needs to be formulated that only allows properly trained and qualified electricians this should mean that the training companies will get their act together and offer proper training or go out of business

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Part P was brought into law as a knee jerk reaction by a Labour government that was supposed to improve public safety couple this with some government idea we had a massive skills shortage and what have ended up with the mess we have today. Part P as it stands needs to be abolished and if it is really needed then a new Part P needs to be formulated that only allows properly trained and qualified electricians this should mean that the training companies will get their act together and offer proper training or go out of business

oh no it dont.

we`v had enough of this rotten old show as it is....

we dont need Part p Mk 2....

if it goes...it goes for good........
we dont need something else rearing its ugly head....

 

[Plonker 3]

oh no it dont.

we`v had enough of this rotten old show as it is....

we dont need Part p Mk 2....

if it goes...it goes for good........
we dont need something else rearing its ugly head....

We managed to survive over 100 years without it and am pretty damn sure we could survive without it again

 

[GLENNSPARK]

We managed to survive over 100 years without it and am pretty damn sure we could survive without it again

thats what i means...

we dont need some other replacement crap following its heels...

 

[Plonker 3]

The other thing is, I nor I imagine anyone else has ever heard of how a scam has actually managed to save a life or make domestic installation any safer.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

The other thing is, I nor I imagine anyone else has ever heard of how a scam has actually managed to save a life or make domestic installation any safer.

caus it dont.

its a bit like `rated people` innit...

nobody knows what their really there for....

they had a stand didn`t they at elex manchester did that rated people.....it was very quiet around that stand....

they had the cheek to ask me as i went by if i was interested.....
told them i thought they were parasites and walked off..

 

[Plonker 3]

May see if the likes of rated people are at Elex Coventry and see if they can tell me why they are better than the likes of Yell.com and such lime which are free

 

[GLENNSPARK]

May see if the likes of rated people are at Elex Coventry and see if they can tell me why they are better than the likes of Yell.com and such lime which are free

just tell them they are not necessary or important...then walk off....

 

[Knobhead]

You’re probably fed up of me saying a national register is the only way to kill off the parasitic scams and the Electrical Trainee’s.

I’m sorry, but it’s the only way for properly qualified electricians to rescue the trade now.

Ditch the baggage.

 

[Guest111]

I had a lets say discussion with the NI at elex,and brought up part P and how it came to be,now when I first heard the story of how an MP's daughter had been electrocuted by dodgy electrics I was a tad annoyed to say the least,the impression I got was a small child killed by some dodgy wiring.Then I got the full story,which I hasten to add was lets say blurred to sell a good story.The daughter in question was 30 odd years old,she got killed when her leg touched a dishwasher and her hand touched a metal rack,which had been fitted by her husband,on a wall in between 2 sockets and which people had complained of getting slight shocks off for ages.Now I know we don't like DIY books BUT read any book and it always tells you to avoid drilling into walls in a line horizontally between sockets or vertically above or below sockets or switches.Thats basic common sense,without getting involved with cable detectors or anything else,now lets be honest,regardless of whatever the electrician did that was wrong,ultimately it was the fault of the person who fitted the rack to the wall,her husband.Was he criticised in court? NO! Why because they wanted to blame someone else,and on the back of this to fleece electricians.

 

[UNG]

oh no it dont.

we`v had enough of this rotten old show as it is....

we dont need Part p Mk 2....

if it goes...it goes for good........
we dont need something else rearing its ugly head....

Very short sighted comment IMO Part P is only a section in the building regs that could be rewritten and/or revised to rid it of the problems it currently causes and the scams and trainers that exacerbate everything that Part P was supposed to solve

It also sounds your against any regulation does this include any form of licensing of electricians as this is something that could rear it's "ugly head" as an alternative

 

[UNG]

I had a lets say discussion with the NI at elex,and brought up part P and how it came to be,now when I first heard the story of how an MP's daughter had been electrocuted by dodgy electrics I was a tad annoyed to say the least,the impression I got was a small child killed by some dodgy wiring.Then I got the full story,which I hasten to add was lets say blurred to sell a good story.The daughter in question was 30 odd years old,she got killed when her leg touched a dishwasher and her hand touched a metal rack,which had been fitted by her husband,on a wall in between 2 sockets and which people had complained of getting slight shocks off for ages.Now I know we don't like DIY books BUT read any book and it always tells you to avoid drilling into walls in a line horizontally between sockets or vertically above or below sockets or switches.Thats basic common sense,without getting involved with cable detectors or anything else,now lets be honest,regardless of whatever the electrician did that was wrong,ultimately it was the fault of the person who fitted the rack to the wall,her husband.Was he criticised in court? NO! Why because they wanted to blame someone else,and on the back of this to fleece electricians.

I often wonder how many other similar cases there have been in the last 10 - 15 years where the person involved was not related to an MP so those incidents didn't get the same publicity.
The effectiveness of Part P is difficult to measure as the introduction of BS7671:2008 with the RCD everything line must distort any data collected as there is no reporting of how many times RCD's are tripped and what the circumstances were when it tripped and whether there was a danger to life

 

[Engineer54]

It also sounds your against any regulation does this include any form of licensing of electricians as this is something that could rear it's "ugly head" as an alternative

Nothing ugly at all about the licensing of all electricians, in fact it could well be the saviour of UK electricians.

One things for sure it'll remove any need for scam providers and their bloody joke of a competent assessment, that frankly the dimmest school leaver can pass, a couple of weeks or so after leaving school....

 

[telectrix]

I had a lets say discussion with the NI at elex,and brought up part P and how it came to be,now when I first heard the story of how an MP's daughter had been electrocuted by dodgy electrics I was a tad annoyed to say the least,the impression I got was a small child killed by some dodgy wiring.Then I got the full story,which I hasten to add was lets say blurred to sell a good story.The daughter in question was 30 odd years old,she got killed when her leg touched a dishwasher and her hand touched a metal rack,which had been fitted by her husband,on a wall in between 2 sockets and which people had complained of getting slight shocks off for ages.Now I know we don't like DIY books BUT read any book and it always tells you to avoid drilling into walls in a line horizontally between sockets or vertically above or below sockets or switches.Thats basic common sense,without getting involved with cable detectors or anything else,now lets be honest,regardless of whatever the electrician did that was wrong,ultimately it was the fault of the person who fitted the rack to the wall,her husband.Was he criticised in court? NO! Why because they wanted to blame someone else,and on the back of this to fleece electricians.

what never came to light with this case is whether the cable in question was correctly routed in a safe zone, whether it was RCD protected or not, dependent on the reg. in force at the time of installation, if the cable was install in accordance with thew current version of BS7671, then the blame rests solely on whoever drilled into it, and the customer for not acting on the fact that repeated small shocks had been received. but, then again, an MP was in the equation, so blame culture comes in. it's got to be someone's fault, not ours, blame the spark.

,

 

[UNG]

Nothing ugly at all about the licensing of all electricians, in fact it could well be the saviour of UK electricians.

One things for sure it'll remove any need for scam providers and their bloody joke of a competent assessment, that frankly the dimmest school leaver can pass, a couple of weeks or so after leaving school....

I agree with the comments you have made and they are along the lines I was thinking the ugly term was used in response to Glennspark's comment about abolishing Part P with no replacement rearing it's ugly head so it's a bit out of context now

The industry needs cleaning up and the term qualified needs reinstating as opposed to the competent term that has taken over in recent years and then it needs to be enforced

 

[UNG]

what never came to light with this case is whether the cable in question was correctly routed in a safe zone, whether it was RCD protected or not, dependent on the reg. in force at the time of installation, if the cable was install in accordance with thew current version of BS7671, then the blame rests solely on whoever drilled into it, and the customer for not acting on the fact that repeated small shocks had been received. but, then again, an MP was in the equation, so blame culture comes in. it's got to be someone's fault, not ours, blame the spark.

,

It always amazes me that these industry bodies never defend the industry in these cases where it is found that the problem is not wholly attributable to the spark that did the installation all they do is look for another way to take money off the mugs who will sign up to their scam

 

[jones68]

Well thank you all for the incredibly helpful posts, all based on sweeping bigoted ideas about who I am and my skill level and ability in the electrical field. No doubt you all went to oxford before deciding to be sparks or maybe , possibly you all failed horribly in school and had to spend 5 years in tech college learning ohm`s law! Sorry to imply any stereotype.
I have been in the building trade for 20 years, high end guild of craftsmen quality in all fields and have recently started to add electrical qualifications to my skill base so that I don`t always have to wait on sparks to turn up and trash the build before I can get on!
I asked a very simple question regarding interpretation of building regs, my work has passed inspection by building control, I have also been lucky enough to gain experience with an excellent electrician , I will ask him this question when he gets back from his holiday or just ask my equally helpful building control officer.
You`re mostly a very very sad bunch who clearly need to get a life!

 

[Octopus]

Well thank you all for the incredibly helpful posts, all based on sweeping bigoted ideas about who I am and my skill level and ability in the electrical field. No doubt you all went to oxford before deciding to be sparks or maybe , possibly you all failed horribly in school and had to spend 5 years in tech college learning ohm`s law! Sorry to imply any stereotype.
I have been in the building trade for 20 years, high end guild of craftsmen quality in all fields and have recently started to add electrical qualifications to my skill base so that I don`t always have to wait on sparks to turn up and trash the build before I can get on!
I asked a very simple question regarding interpretation of building regs, my work has passed inspection by building control, I have also been lucky enough to gain experience with an excellent electrician , I will ask him this question when he gets back from his holiday or just ask my equally helpful building control officer.
You`re mostly a very very sad bunch who clearly need to get a life!

----er

In bold - then why the question?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Very short sighted comment IMO Part P is only a section in the building regs that could be rewritten and/or revised to rid it of the problems it currently causes and the scams and trainers that exacerbate everything that Part P was supposed to solve

It also sounds your against any regulation does this include any form of licensing of electricians as this is something that could rear it's "ugly head" as an alternative

i wern`t on about a proper, recognised licence

i were on about some other crap in the mould of partP...

just a peter & paul excersize...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

----er

dont rise to it murdoch.....he`s just a penis..

 

[jaypp]

Well thank you all for the incredibly helpful posts, all based on sweeping bigoted ideas about who I am and my skill level and ability in the electrical field. No doubt you all went to oxford before deciding to be sparks or maybe , possibly you all failed horribly in school and had to spend 5 years in tech college learning ohm`s law! Sorry to imply any stereotype.
I have been in the building trade for 20 years, high end guild of craftsmen quality in all fields and have recently started to add electrical qualifications to my skill base so that I don`t always have to wait on sparks to turn up and trash the build before I can get on!
I asked a very simple question regarding interpretation of building regs, my work has passed inspection by building control, I have also been lucky enough to gain experience with an excellent electrician , I will ask him this question when he gets back from his holiday or just ask my equally helpful building control officer.
You`re mostly a very very sad bunch who clearly need to get a life!

Pot and kettle!!

 

[uksparks]

Jack of all trades, master craftsman of none. I'd far sooner be a bigot who went to Oxford than a knob.

 

[UNG]

Well thank you all for the incredibly helpful posts, all based on sweeping bigoted ideas about who I am and my skill level and ability in the electrical field. No doubt you all went to oxford before deciding to be sparks or maybe , possibly you all failed horribly in school and had to spend 5 years in tech college learning ohm`s law! Sorry to imply any stereotype.

Well thank you for your bigoted opinion you obviously have very very little knowledge of the electrical industry if you believe the PROPERLY qualified sparks on here spent 5 years just learning Ohm's law. If that is all you managed to learn in your 5 weeks then you certainly have plenty more learning to do because you have been brain washed by whoever told you that ohm's law is all you need to learn

I have been in the building trade for 20 years, high end guild of craftsmen quality in all fields and have recently started to add electrical qualifications to my skill base so that I don`t always have to wait on sparks to turn up and trash the build before I can get on!

You sound like the typical ignorant jobbing builder who is a master cock up merchant that blames other trades for your short comings. Apologies for the stereotype

I asked a very simple question regarding interpretation of building regs, my work has passed inspection by building control, I have also been lucky enough to gain experience with an excellent electrician , I will ask him this question when he gets back from his holiday or just ask my equally helpful building control officer.

Did you not think to ask your "high end guild of craftsmen quality in all fields" or do they not cover electrical yet because you are still in training and you are it's only member. Dare I ask how your "excellent electrician" learnt his trade as you don't appear to be getting much benefit from his experience and we won't go into why your building control officer is so helpful and it's not clear what aspect of your work has passed building control inspection

You`re mostly a very very sad bunch who clearly need to get a life!

I think you need to get your head out of your rectum. The public needs protecting from people like you that think they a a master of everything they touch

Thank you for your posts it's been a pleasure discussing them

 

[uksparks]

Nicely put UNG

 

[Dcf]

Hmm
yet another multi trade superstar coming on here wanting hugs n kisses from qualified electricians
after cutting out the part that the electrician does.
This carry on needs to be stopped in its tracks.
its only some wires after all eh?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Well thank you for your bigoted opinion you obviously have very very little knowledge of the electrical industry if you believe the PROPERLY qualified sparks on here spent 5 years just learning Ohm's law. If that is all you managed to learn in your 5 weeks then you certainly have plenty more learning to do because you have been brain washed by whoever told you that ohm's law is all you need to learn



You sound like the typical ignorant jobbing builder who is a master cock up merchant that blames other trades for your short comings. Apologies for the stereotype



Did you not think to ask your "high end guild of craftsmen quality in all fields" or do they not cover electrical yet because you are still in training and you are it's only member. Dare I ask how your "excellent electrician" learnt his trade as you don't appear to be getting much benefit from his experience and we won't go into why your building control officer is so helpful and it's not clear what aspect of your work has passed building control inspection



I think you need to get your head out of your rectum. The public needs protecting from people like you that think they a a master of everything they touch

Thank you for your posts it's been a pleasure discussing them

UNG....

you cant educate pork mate...

 

[shanky887614]

UNG....

you cant educate pork mate...

True but the smell of crackling is just as sweet as the smell of success XD

 

[GMES]

I bloody missed another one.