A good example why not to use a Twist connector!

[Guest111]

According to Ideal,their Twister connectors comply with BS7671 and their push ins to BS EN 60998 AND BS7671, also the push ins are classed as maintenance free.their spliceline connectors are also classed as maintenance free.

 

[Guitarist]

.......which opens up another question - the best way to deal with lighting circuits now that maintained JB's can't be 'inaccessible'. The spark who rewired my mum's 18 months ago now runs T&E back from every light fitting and every switch to one 45mm deep double patress in which he used one or more whole strips of choc blocks (and a Dymo labeller!). He fits the patress for the upstairs lights immediately inside the loft hatch and the one for downstairs in whatever cupboard is convenient (in mum's case in the pantry at ceiling level, above the CU, in others he says he often uses airing cupboards if they are in bedrooms not bathrooms, or fitted wardrobes, etc.).

I quite like this way of doing things as there are no junctions anywhere (MF or M) except one clearly labelled location, but it doesn't half use a lot of T&E.

It was fashionable many years ago to use the light switch backbox for joining the neutral, then it went out of fashion and was considered "bad practice". Terminations in backboxes is making a comeback, especially with the popularity of push-fit connectors, and I for one think it is a good idea if it saves using a junction box in some obscure place.

 

[DJ026]

I haven't made my mind up yet about Push in Connections but they have been used on Fluorescent fittings for years. I do like the Hager switches with the neutral parking terminal, I this is a great idea.

 

[alwaysared]

I lived and worked in Florida for 10 years and never saw any problems with these twisters, surely as with any connector the secret is to use the correct rating, after all a 5amp block connector might get hot on a 30 amp circuit.
Del

 

[Poptasticdave]

It was fashionable many years ago to use the light switch backbox for joining the neutral, then it went out of fashion and was considered "bad practice". Terminations in backboxes is making a comeback, especially with the popularity of push-fit connectors, and I for one think it is a good idea if it saves using a junction box in some obscure place.

Agreed: and in the past I have often used 3 core & Earth to run switching for two lights with switches on the opposite sides of the same partition wall, making appropriate joints in the back box of the switch the cable comes down to, and popping a short piece of T&E through the wall to the other.

I did see one arrangement that I thought was a bit unusual once, but I don't see anything actually wrong with it - at least not against the regs that would have been in force when it was fitted: 1.5 T&E from 5A fuse in CU to light switch in under-stairs walk in store where CU was located. L to said switch, L thro' wall to kitchen light switch on other side using 1.5mm T&E and 3rd L in same switch terminal. 3rd L was in a 3-core & E. Other 2 cores in 3-Core & E were (Blue) for N, and switched L jointed to Kitchen light form the short T&E. Thus the 3-core & E carried N for all other lights in house, via JB under landing floor, L for all other lights in house, also via JB under landing floor, and switched L for kitchen light, jointed in JB under landing floor.

Light switch was mounted in a 25mm surface box in cupboard.

It would have been fitted around 1977/78 so I guess 15th Ed (or maybe very late 14th) and I found it in about 1989, when householder wanted to isolate upstairs lights for loft work and found that they couldn't without taking downstairs off too.

Apart from obvious inconvenience to householder I couldn't see anything technically wrong with this at the time but changed it to two fuses, two circuits and two completely separate sets of cables right back to CU.

 

[IDEAL]

The problem with forums is that you never know if the people posting comments are doing so for purely malicious reasons!
I work for IDEAL INDUSTRIES the world's largest manufacturer of wiring connectors (twist-on, push-in, crimps, etc) and have been one of the guys promoting twist-on wire connectors in the UK. I know that I am setting myself up by joining this forum, but I'd like to set a few things straight:-

1). Firstly, I cannot tell if this particular connector is manufactured by IDEAL or not. Unfortunately our connectors (like Wago) have been knocked-off by numerous Asian suppliers and quite often the quality of these connectors is poor. All IDEAL's connectors are manufactured to the highest quality standards in our US factories and if this is an IDEAL wire connector we would like it back so that a full investigation into why it melted can take place.
2). In my career I have seen quite a few burnt connectors. In the main these have been terminal blocks, but I have also seen heat damage to most types of connector in the market. Loose connections, connectors used with wrong size wiring, broken wires, fine stranded wire inserted into push-in's can all cause overheating or arcing. In N. America and internationally, IDEAL sells billions of twist-on wire connectors per year and in the 11 years that I have worked for the company I am not aware of a single fire caused by one of our connectors. Installed properly, modern twist-on wire connectors are one of the safest ways of joining wires.
3). IDEAL's twist-on connectors fully conform to EN 60998-1:2004 and EN 60998-2-4:2005. These are the connecting device standards that all wiring connectors have to meet for CE requirements. In the case of IDEAL's connectors we also put all our connectors through full 3rd party certification which provides independant proof of compliance. By complying with these standards our connectors fully meet the requirements of BS 7671:2008 (17th Edition).
4). Before marketing twist-on wire connectors in the UK we worked with both the Electrical Safety Council and the NICEIC. Both bodies are happy for electricians to use twist-on wire connectors in the UK, providing they are installed in accordance with current regulations i.e. inside an enclosure where required.
5). In the 9 months that we have been selling these connectors, numerous electricians, several large contractors, housing associations and district councils have installed these connectors without incidence. They are nothing like the old ceramic Scruit connectors of the past, mainly due to the conical square edged spring that is welded inside the plastic connector cap. This spring grips the wires and does not relax over time.

We know that twist-on connectors are Marmite, so we are happy for electricians to use our 32A rated push-in connectors or the new SpliceLine in-line push-in connector instead. Twist-on's do however offer some advantages over other connectors e.g. higher current rating, IP55 rating on some models, accept solid and stranded wire and are reuseable. Thanks.

 

[Guitarist]

I've given you a "like" for the sheer amount of typing in that post

 

[netblindpaul]

Ideal,
Sorry, I am still not convinced.
I know of a respectful question that was asked of you with regard to acceptance, marking, standards etc. over a year ago and has not yet been answered.
No matter how good your parts are the idea sucks, and always has & IMHO always will, especially now in the UK with the skill level of the majority.
I will take a HUGE level of convincing that things have changed that much, and have seen absolutely NO evidence yet to to show that this is now the case.

 

[alarm man]

well ideal,id like to think you are who you say you are,you never know these days on forums,but i'll take it you are,weve used the pro connectors a few times and i like them probably the only one on here that has a good word for them,as youve seen you have a job on your hands convincing others,theres a good case for all connectors some prefer one over the other.

 

[Barry Rathbone]

This is thanks to regs AGAIN! swat these under floorboards, walls,wherever... no adjustments needed of course, there tight so we do need to check!! Never used them will never use them and for that matter will never use wagos either.I say its tight when I,Thats I say its tight.
IMO...of course...
10 years down the line house fires will be blamed on connectors like these...watch this space....

 

[timbobelfast]

Ideal, I can confirm that we can only get Ideal twist ons.

I am trying to get them removed of our material list as we also have connector strips available.

Can across a fluorescent light fitting the other day with manufacturer fitted connector blocks, but you guessed it, they decided to connect it up using wire nuts instead?!?

 

[pauljpickering8]

When I first came to the Ghan it used to make me laugh how the Americans would run a radial circuit and under each socket (receptacle) would have a joint box with fire nuts in, Cable in, Cable out, Cable to the socket...One year in and getting woken up in the middle of the night because power has gone off to a building because these have failed miserably no longer provides the same amount of chuckles!!

 

[timbobelfast]

Yeah, you certainly have to stay on your toes over here. You never know what your going to find.

 

[1capybara]

They only as good as the sparky installing them. Using good UL listed wire nuts
[not Chinese made ones] installed correctly as checked to see that they are installed strong, not problem. If you buy a junk brand and dont know how to install them or check your own installation, big problem. Wagos, on the other hand.......

 

[Knobhead]

Thanks for the response Ideal but I’m afraid you’ll never convince me.
OK I’m thinking back to the days of Screwit’s, remove one to do any testing and you have a screwed up mess to deal with. You can only trim the cores back so many times.
Aesthetically they look a mess with the cores being twisted around entering the join as shown in this screen grab from your own site.

View attachment 13790

 

[sparks1973]

The problem with forums is that you never know if the people posting comments are doing so for purely malicious reasons!
I work for IDEAL INDUSTRIES the world's largest manufacturer of wiring connectors (twist-on, push-in, crimps, etc) and have been one of the guys promoting twist-on wire connectors in the UK. I know that I am setting myself up by joining this forum, but I'd like to set a few things straight:-

1). Firstly, I cannot tell if this particular connector is manufactured by IDEAL or not. Unfortunately our connectors (like Wago) have been knocked-off by numerous Asian suppliers and quite often the quality of these connectors is poor. All IDEAL's connectors are manufactured to the highest quality standards in our US factories and if this is an IDEAL wire connector we would like it back so that a full investigation into why it melted can take place.
2). In my career I have seen quite a few burnt connectors. In the main these have been terminal blocks, but I have also seen heat damage to most types of connector in the market. Loose connections, connectors used with wrong size wiring, broken wires, fine stranded wire inserted into push-in's can all cause overheating or arcing. In N. America and internationally, IDEAL sells billions of twist-on wire connectors per year and in the 11 years that I have worked for the company I am not aware of a single fire caused by one of our connectors. Installed properly, modern twist-on wire connectors are one of the safest ways of joining wires.
3). IDEAL's twist-on connectors fully conform to EN 60998-1:2004 and EN 60998-2-4:2005. These are the connecting device standards that all wiring connectors have to meet for CE requirements. In the case of IDEAL's connectors we also put all our connectors through full 3rd party certification which provides independant proof of compliance. By complying with these standards our connectors fully meet the requirements of BS 7671:2008 (17th Edition).
4). Before marketing twist-on wire connectors in the UK we worked with both the Electrical Safety Council and the NICEIC. Both bodies are happy for electricians to use twist-on wire connectors in the UK, providing they are installed in accordance with current regulations i.e. inside an enclosure where required.
5). In the 9 months that we have been selling these connectors, numerous electricians, several large contractors, housing associations and district councils have installed these connectors without incidence. They are nothing like the old ceramic Scruit connectors of the past, mainly due to the conical square edged spring that is welded inside the plastic connector cap. This spring grips the wires and does not relax over time.

We know that twist-on connectors are Marmite, so we are happy for electricians to use our 32A rated push-in connectors or the new SpliceLine in-line push-in connector instead. Twist-on's do however offer some advantages over other connectors e.g. higher current rating, IP55 rating on some models, accept solid and stranded wire and are reuseable. Thanks.

well i was shown a `wago` that wasn`t just the other day that had failed....initially difficult to spot but upon closer inspection you could tell it was an impostor...our far eastern brethen were responsible for it methinks.....

 

[Guitarist]

well i was shown a `wago` that wasn`t just the other day that had failed....initially difficult to spot but upon closer inspection you could tell it was an impostor...our far eastern brethen were responsible for it methinks.....

It's a shame that people even buy these rubbish imposters, just to save a few quid.

 

[Paul.M]

@ IDEAL. I think its great that an electrical manufacturer has joined the forum to answer our questions/doubts about their product. I believe the poster is from IDEAL after speaking to them at recent elex shows, the terminology is exactly the same on here as it was face to face.

I like the way you put it "marmite". A lot of people haven't tried your product yet, is it possible for members to private message you with their address and you send them a sample pack? Let them make their own mind up and post up any questions to you?

Ps welcome to the forum.

 

[Elektrikas]

It`s funny because this twist connectors in Lithuania is presented like very good, but electricians not using them because they are to expensive

 

[stonejenson]

well i cant see it Lenny...after all the jury is still out on wago`s isn`t it and they are clearly better than this....

Check out their site info http://www.wago.ltd.uk/pdfs/InstallerGuide.pdf