A new type of ring circuit???

[Vortigern]

About to embark on wiring an extension and cursory examination threw up the above. Have not as yet poked inside. Anyone seen this arrangement before? Can I believe what my eyes seem to be saying to me?

 

[pc1966]

WTF! It looks like someone has paralleled two 16A breakers for the ring, possibly one on each end? I guess an inspection will reveal what advanced Muppetery is involved here.

 

[James]

I have a sense of foreboding hanging over me.
with luck, its not what we think, just a shortage of suitable labels!!!
i, like others cant wait for tomorrows picture with the cover off.

p.s. if it is what we think, good job its not a 3 phase board

 

[pc1966]

It is odd there are 32A MCBs marked "sockets" as well. In many ways labling it "ring circuit" is odd, as only an electrician would know what that was (normally) used for.

We all look forward to seeing what comes out of this!

 

[James]

@Vortigern

By the look of it, that board was installed whilst I was still in nappies, you were probably running round the playground trying to look up girls skirts?
it might not have the updated wire colours!!

 

[SJD]

It could be a ring not for sockets. I had one earlier this week on a board change, where "kitchen ring" was in fact a small ring for three appliances (fridge, washing machine, dishwasher) that were all hard wired in via FCUs. And the sockets in the kitchen were on a separate circuit just labelled "sockets".

 

[Vortigern]

trying to look up girls skirts?

No, had got a little further than that by 1989, but still a nice past time (with full adult consent of course by all participating members!) Mhmm @SJD it's just that installer opted to bridge two MCBs with that label, I will know better on Sunday. Also lovely job of garage supply on 1.5 T&E on a form of catenary, needs a little looking into.

 

[James]

89 was it, i was 13 by then. not in nappies then!!

 

[Vortigern]

Hoping I can get MK RCBO for those, pretty sure I can.
[automerge]1597952246[/automerge]

i was 13 by then

trying to look up girls skirts

Tut tut!

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

Hoping I can get MK RCBO for those, pretty sure I can.

Be sure to get one with a matching slant

 

[pc1966]

MK Sentry RCBO are easy enough to get, Screwfix and CEF have them and no doubt many more.

 

[Vortigern]

Ah yes the famous MK slant over...

 

[DPG]

Maybe it was a ring which has now been split into radials due a fault, and they got confused when labelling it??

 

[davesparks]

My guess is that it had a double module RCBO once upon a time, but now some dingbat has split the ring (probably due to a fault) and put the two halves on 16A MCB's.

 

[Baddegg]

At least it had a up to 32a...?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

As @DPG , I reckon you'll find a single 2.5mm conductor in each and the ring will have been split somewhere. If that is the case then I suppose they have at least given you an indication that it was a ring. Actually, no, that's awful labelling, just trying to see a positive!

 

[telectrix]

As @DPG , I reckon you'll find a single 2.5mm conductor in each and the ring will have been split somewhere. If that is the case then I suppose they have at least given you an indication that it was a ring. Actually, no, that's awful labelling, just trying to see a positive!

it's AC> no positive (and no negative either).

 

[HappyHippyDad]

it's AC> no positive (and no negative either).

That took me a while to get

 

[Gary latto]

From someone still learning if you find a ring with no continuity etc and need to split rfc and make into 2 radials at what point do you split the ring ?
Sorry to hijack the post ?

 

[davesparks]

From someone still learning if you find a ring with no continuity etc and need to split rfc and make into 2 radials at what point do you split the ring ?
Sorry to hijack the post ?

if the ring has no continuity end to end then it is already split, or partially split. If your only option for rectifying this is to make it two radial circuits then you have to disconnect at the two sockets which are on either side of the fault.

 

[Gary latto]

if the ring has no continuity end to end then it is already split, or partially split. If your only option for rectifying this is to make it two radial circuits then you have to disconnect at the two sockets which are on either side of the fault.

Thanks Dale makes sense, what if you can't find the break or a j/b somewhere or only broken on say one leg ?

 

[davesparks]

Thanks Dale makes sense, what if you can't find the break or a j/b somewhere or only broken on say one leg ?

My post was what you can do if you cant find the break. If you can find the break then you can fix it.

You will have identfied which two sockets the break is between, if you then cannot find the break then you can disconnect the faulty section of cable from both of the sockets that the break is between and you will be left with two radials.

if you cant find which two sockets the break is between then you aren't yet competent to be doing the work unsupervised as it shows a significant lack of basic skills.

What do you mean by only broken on one leg? 'leg' is not a defined term as far as ring circuits are concerned so can mean different things, you need to be a bit more specific.

 

[Gary latto]

My post was what you can do if you cant find the break. If you can find the break then you can fix it.

You will have identfied which two sockets the break is between, if you then cannot find the break then you can disconnect the faulty section of cable from both of the sockets that the break is between and you will be left with two radials.

if you cant find which two sockets the break is between then you aren't yet competent to be doing the work unsupervised as it shows a significant lack of basic skills.

What do you mean by only broken on one leg? 'leg' is not a defined term as far as ring circuits are concerned so can mean different things, you need to be a bit more specific.

Thanks makes sense, meant if say the brake is only on one conductor ie the phase or neutral or even the cpc, but yes understand thanks for taking the time to explain ?

 

[DPG]

Thanks makes sense, meant if say the brake is only on one conductor ie the phase or neutral or even the cpc, but yes understand thanks for taking the time to explain ?

Always word your questions well, that is my advice to you. Do that and you will get some good answers/advice on here. It's a great forum with some very knowledgeable and also some very picky people

 

[davesparks]

Thanks makes sense, meant if say the brake is only on one conductor ie the phase or neutral or even the cpc, but yes understand thanks for taking the time to explain ?

Ok, there is no difference in that case, whether one or all conductors are not. A complete ring it needs to be found and fixed or otherwise rectified.

That makes more sense as a question, 'legs' of a ring normally refers to the two cables which connect to the CU.

 

[pc1966]

Generally speaking you should always fix the ring as your overall load handling is better that way, than running as two radials.

More so if the break is quite close to one end of the circuit, as then the longer of the two resulting radials will have a higher volt drop as well as the reduced total current capacity from going down from "ring on 32A" to "radial on 20A" if, as most likely, it is run in 2.5mm so a lower MCB is necessary.

 

[pc1966]

what did you find on inspection @Vortigern ?

 

[Vortigern]

what did you find on inspection @Vortigern ?

Ohhhh yes, completely forgot about that, thanks for the nudge. So I didn't want too much mission creep so did not go to far into it. Have a look at the pic see what you think.

Bear in mind it is cct 4 and 5. I am working on extending cct 3 and don't want to get into mission creep. The fluff has been removed since. It is some kind of cavity filling blown in through the back of the CU. So looking at it I am none the wiser, bit of a mystery eh! Client is a "private" kind of person and has a dog which must apparently be kept from men as it hates men, a rescue dog. So wife and dog are heard and not seen lurking in the bowels of the house. I have not been allowed past the kitchen and tradesmens' entrance. Suppose I can only advise them to have it investigated, but then again is it necessary.

 

[pc1966]

Odd, it looks like 2.5 T&E as well. Wonder if they are rings split in to radials so the MCB was dropped down to compensate? Still 16A is low for that, but at least it is not screaming "danger" on initial inspection.

 

[Vortigern]

As a derriere covering exercise I will advise to have it clarified as to what is going on. The earthing arrangement is in 4mm² from the cut-out. I dont know how many times I have been told it HAS to be 16mm² /sigh. Wonder if I should upgrade? Maybe check out the loop and see how it is all stacking up. Anyway tomorrow will no doubt throw up some interesting facts as I work on extending the ring (which right now is a spur, don't ask) and find the other side of it to make a ring.

 

[ipf]

View attachment 60294
About to embark on wiring an extension and cursory examination threw up the above. Have not as yet poked inside. Anyone seen this arrangement before? Can I believe what my eyes seem to be saying to me?

Maybe it should just say RING CIRCUITS.....even allowing for the breaker ratings.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Ohhhh yes, completely forgot about that, thanks for the nudge. So I didn't want too much mission creep so did not go to far into it. Have a look at the pic see what you think.View attachment 60417
Bear in mind it is cct 4 and 5. I am working on extending cct 3 and don't want to get into mission creep. The fluff has been removed since. It is some kind of cavity filling blown in through the back of the CU. So looking at it I am none the wiser, bit of a mystery eh! Client is a "private" kind of person and has a dog which must apparently be kept from men as it hates men, a rescue dog. So wife and dog are heard and not seen lurking in the bowels of the house. I have not been allowed past the kitchen and tradesmens' entrance. Suppose I can only advise them to have it investigated, but then again is it necessary.

Looks like smoke to me.

 

[Vortigern]

What is interesting is that MK have given a licence to CircPro.co.uk to produce their circuit protection gear. So they are now the official stockist of MK products as a licensee. So it is not the end of MK CU and circuit protection gear!

 

[pc1966]

But will this "new MK" gear be any good?
Quite possibly made by the same factories of course, but time will tell if they start to cost-optimize it further...