AFDDs for single-socket circuits

[Dustydazzler]

There are already AFFFDDDS hitting the seconds market at cheap prices

10amp wylex afdd/rcbo Only Installed For Two Weeks then Removed | eBay

10amp wylex affdd/rcbo Only Installed For Two Weeks then Removed.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[DPG]

There are already AFFFDDDS hitting the seconds market at cheap prices

10amp wylex afdd/rcbo Only Installed For Two Weeks then Removed | eBay

10amp wylex affdd/rcbo Only Installed For Two Weeks then Removed.

www.ebay.co.uk

Makes you wonder why they removed it. Nuisance tripping? Or maybe they have a genuine fault on their installation which will now never be found.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Makes you wonder why they removed it. Nuisance tripping? Or maybe they have a genuine fault on their installation which will now never be found.

Best guess would be nuisance tripping and went back to a normal Mcb

 

[DPG]

Best guess would be nuisance tripping and went back to a normal Mcb

But it could have been detecting a genuine fault on the circuit.

 

[Dustydazzler]

But it could have been detecting a genuine fault on the circuit.

Yes , but customer probably not happy having to keep walking to the consumer unit so sparks changed to an Mcb

 

[DPG]

Yes , but customer probably not happy having to keep walking to the consumer unit so sparks changed to an Mcb

Indeed, and that's the worrying thing.

 

[timhoward]

A little observation - a high percentage of the 2nd hand AFDD's on ebay are Wylex. Coincidence? One to watch at least!

 

[timhoward]

Yes , but customer probably not happy having to keep walking to the consumer unit so sparks changed to an Mcb

and the question is did the 'sparks' check the fault code to see which technology was causing the trip....or just rip it out regardless.

 

[Dustydazzler]

and the question is did the 'sparks' check the fault code to see which technology was causing the trip....or just rip it out regardless.

I have seen 5 or 6 YouTube videos from the States where they literally yank out the AFCI /AFFDDDS if they get a nuisance trip problem and literally replace it with a Mcb

I imagine we will adopt a much similar strategy

 

[DPG]

I have seen 5 or 6 YouTube videos from the States where they literally yank out the AFCI /AFFDDDS if they get a nuisance trip problem and literally replace it with a Mcb

I imagine we will adopt a much similar strategy

Got to be brave to visit an installation with a tripping issue, remove a protective device and then sign your name on the paperwork to say you've done it.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Got to be brave to visit an installation with a tripping issue, remove a protective device and then sign your name on the paperwork to say you've done it.

Who said anything about 'sign'

Cash meet hand see you later

 

[pc1966]

Thing is they are also RCBO so odd tripping might be something simple like N-E fault or borrowed neutral, both easy to detect and fixable without wandering in to the AFDD side of things.

Worrying though to see then removed.

Also a bit odd that is a 10A one, not obvious for what. BIG lighting circuit? Under-provisioned single socket?

 

[DPG]

I definitely think these things are going to catch the cowboy sparks out. Let's face it, some of them won't even notice that it's an AFDD and not just an RCBO.

 

[UNG]

But it could have been detecting a genuine fault on the circuit.

But with the usual test equipment we have can we easily identify the early stages of an arc fault on a circuit and that could be the problem that we have to work with

The Hager AFDD's are reprogrammable via bluetooth so nuisance tripping can be filtered out but how do we know from the information gathered by the Hager data tool and the modified firmware provided by Hager that we are not inadvertantly desensitising the AFDD
The lack of information or any training on AFDD's is woeful and there seems to be a blind faith that they are the be all and end all of electrical safety when there is no external method of testing and confirming the functionality of these devices

 

[Dustydazzler]

But with the usual test equipment we have can we easily identify the early stages of an arc fault on a circuit and that could be the problem that we have to work with

The Hager AFDD's are reprogrammable via bluetooth so nuisance tripping can be filtered out but how do we know from the information gathered by the Hager data tool and the modified firmware provided by Hager that we are not inadvertantly desensitising the AFDD
The lack of information or any training on AFDD's is woeful and there seems to be a blind faith that they are the be all and end all of electrical safety when there is no external method of testing and confirming the functionality of these devices

From what I gather the Americans / Canadians have been using AFCI devices in their homes since around 2012 , but due to nuisance tripping issues limit the use of AFCI to certain rooms only
They had so much nuisance tripping early on they removed their use from Kitchens because certain appliances would repeatedly trip the device even on a brand new install

 

[mainline]

But with the usual test equipment we have can we easily identify the early stages of an arc fault on a circuit and that could be the problem that we have to work with

The Hager AFDD's are reprogrammable via bluetooth so nuisance tripping can be filtered out but how do we know from the information gathered by the Hager data tool and the modified firmware provided by Hager that we are not inadvertantly desensitising the AFDD
The lack of information or any training on AFDD's is woeful and there seems to be a blind faith that they are the be all and end all of electrical safety when there is no external method of testing and confirming the functionality of these devices

For that price, they shouldn't have to be played with at all or have the means to be.

I can see smart consumer units being the next thing, why does the can of worms come to mind.

 

[westward10]

I stand to be corrected but I believe @Megawatt our US correspondent said they fit them and then once it has been inspected they are often ditched for other devices.

 

[nicebutdim]

A little observation - a high percentage of the 2nd hand AFDD's on ebay are Wylex. Coincidence? One to watch at least!

Ebay has long been a steady source of supply for new Crabtree & Wylex RCBOs, with AFDDs slowly creeping in. My suspicion has long been that many make their way there from over-ordering on jobs, rather than being returned to employers., but some sellers seem to have significant supplies. Who knows?

 

[DPG]

Ebay has long been a steady source of supply for new Crabtree & Wylex RCBOs, with AFDDs slowly creeping in. My suspicion has long been that many make their way there from over-ordering on jobs, rather than being returned to employers., but some sellers seem to have significant supplies. Who knows?

Probably a fair point. And it avoids the conspiracy theories.

 

[Dartlec]

One issue I am concerned about with AFDDs is that they are effectively small computers.

That means firmware/software and with that comes issues of maintenance/errors/life expectancy due to heat/electronics.

What happens when/if they develop a new and improved version? Will there be a way to update existing units (I suspect not).

What will happen if a new appliance is released that just by coincidence produces a similar 'fingerprint' to the one looked for?

I know the idea is not new, particularly in the US, but I believe that our ones are rather different and therefore still fairly new and untested in wide usage (Are they widely used in other part of the 230V world?)

I doubt I will be fitting them anywhere other than I have to for some time to come, until the technology has proved its usefulness and the price has dropped significantly.

Surely if the belief is that a lot of the problems this will solve are within appliances, the better solution would be to include some sort of AFDD within every appliance. Wonder why the appliance makers and large companies who sit on the regs committee didn't consider that?