Age of those who can build a control panel and control a process

[edexlab]

Well , after killing off this countries industry as some short sighted people in charge believed it was more economical to buy cheap throwaway quality from abroad ,rather than keep the quality this country used to be famous for, I guess the industrial side of the electrical training curriculum was in less demand!

I watched a good documentary a couple of years ago on the German engineering revolution apparently their engineering was a bit of a joke at the turn of the last century, to the point that buying German was worse than getting something from a 3rd world country but they turned things around, across the board by introducing their own quality standards and engineering ethics based above those of other countries, this included the training regimes and curriculums at schools and colleges,
unbelievable that here where engineering first began, its hard to find people with the skills required.
I've worked with several mechanical fitters that can't sharpen a drill bit!
Say no more!

 

[Rob Taylor]

Hi guys, Very interesting thread...I've been working with my boss for a couple of years who maintains and builds the odd control panel and plant etc.
I find it fascinating and feel that domestic sparks are missing out on so much!! The control and instrumentation in my eyes, is by far the most interesting work....especially when it doesn't work and you have to find the fault!!!
My boss is old & old school, lol 60.
I'm 28 and really want to learn as much as I can in the field...I've been looking around for panel building courses, so I can get some kind of certification....is anyone aware of one of these?
Cheers

 

[joel89]

You can do an NVQ but your better off learning yourself I'm 25, and do my own designing and building if somebody gives you a circuit drawing anyone can do it really if you can read schematics

 

[Jonspark]

whats the point in asking people who can build control systems how old they are?

 

[Bobster]

whats the point in asking people who can build control systems how old they are?

Have you read this thread?

 

[Jonspark]

Have you read this thread?

Isn't that whats been asked in the poll?

 

[Bobster]

Isn't that whats been asked in the poll?

It certainly is. He also explains why he's asking.

 

[Jonspark]

Might have been better to ask WHEN people acquired these skills as well as age

 

[Darkwood]

whats the point in asking people who can build control systems how old they are?

Its a poll to get an idea on the age grouping of members on the forum just probably out of interest, this particular industry is developing a massive black hole of skill shortages as the old retire and no-one to fill there boots .... if your interested yourself in the poll then by all means contribute to the thread but don't jump in with a comment like that as its just trolling... so what exactly is the point of posting such a comment!

 

[Knobhead]

whats the point in asking people who can build control systems how old they are?

Can you build a control panel from scratch?

I’m retired from the game and looking at the poll others can’t be far away. I fully understand why DW asked the question.

 

[Jonspark]

Right ok, he's concerned for the future. Thought it was about what college teaches these days. Yes I can build control panels, design, build draft up circuit diagrams. Its almost a hobby, I enjoy it that much.

 

[Knobhead]

Looking at the thread title again “Age of those who can build a control panel and control a process” the control a process part seems to have got a bit lost.

A DOL or a Y∆ starter could be regarded as “a panel”. But how about the process control side of panel building? Things start to get complicated then.

How many would undertake a “true” control system. I’m thinking along the lines of controlling product flow or mixing where many factors come in to play.

 

[Jonspark]

Looking at the thread title again “Age of those who can build a control panel and control a process” the control a process part seems to have got a bit lost.

A DOL or a Y∆ starter could be regarded as “a panel”. But how about the process control side of panel building? Things start to get complicated then.

How many would undertake a “true” control system. I’m thinking along the lines of controlling product flow or mixing where many factors come in to play.

The panels I have built have been for controlling reactors in hazardous locations incorporating 4-20mA process control equipment, so I think that qualifies me as a 'true' panel builder.

 

[Bobster]

Did you perform the Hazop and FDS for these reactors?

 

[Darkwood]

The panels I have built have been for controlling reactors in hazardous locations incorporating 4-20mA process control equipment, so I think that qualifies me as a 'true' panel builder.

Lets rephrase a little what Tony says ...

A control panel builder who competent IMHO would need skills in several areas, now as control systems cover so much it would be impossible to be an all rounder for everything out there but someone with good grasp should be able to self teach new tech off the cuff and adapt to new technology. Also they would in my opinion be able to :-

-Build a panel within the scope of the Low Voltage Directive and the associated British Standards (Usually BS 60204).
-Be able to risk assess and understand the safety cat' the control system would require to be built to to meet the machinery directive regarding the health and safety requirements, also to have a grasp of the use of work equipment directive.
-Compliance with EC directives regarding EMC, harmonics and RF interference.
-I would expect any panel builder to have some understanding and working knowledge of old and modern technology in order to give good value for money while offering the best solution available, this would mean a base understanding of safety systems, plc's, vsd's, digital and analogue equipment, although not all essential if a specialised panel builder where some areas will not be necessary.

20yrs ago I could build panels with 0-10v, 4-20mA etc process control but knowing what I know now and looking back I realise I knew nothing and my first panels were poor in design and complied with little if any regulation, but thats what in house allowed you to do because it wasn't going to market.... I come across many panels some brand new that fall well short of the LV directive and in some cases are a danger to the end user ...yes the do the job intended but not fail safe so when we ask who's a panel builder you really should list out as I have what you expect a panel builder to be able to do....

People can spend their lives building panels to spec', following wiring plans and loading pre-programmed software without any idea what the in and outs of the system is and are more of a production line worker but still with the tag panel builder but its those who can design, build, adapt, extend and/or alter existing and fault find both new and old set ups that would get my respect as a fully fledged control equipment designer and builder.

 

[Jonspark]

Did you perform the Hazop and FDS for these reactors?

No management did that, I did the initial MOC's but I suppose if you dig deep enough you'll find some directive I didn't comply with, which you can then use to prove that you are superior to me.

 

[Bobster]

No management did that, I did the initial MOC's but I suppose if you dig deep enough you'll find some directive I didn't comply with, which you can then use to prove that you are superior to me.

Bit touchy aren't you?

I was only curious having finished a project involving 3 Atex rated chemical reactors only a few months ago.

 

[Jonspark]

Bit touchy aren't you?

I was only curious having finished a project involving 3 Atex rated chemical reactors only a few months ago.

Well it was a rhetorical question was it not.

 

[sysrq]

Im 21, working in the utilities industry, doing maintenance I currently make small control panels for small processes, I can program low level PLCs like your Zelios (Primarily schneider gear) and to high level structured text on M340, with a little help on the more complex control. Safety systems am I ok at to a basic level I usually have to ask for a bit of guidance on how more complicated panels/systems should be setup which the more mature guys help with. Ive got miles more to learn in my field of instruments and automation. But love all of it.

You are rally young.

I'm 27 but I'm more into electronics in general. Worked as a PMR radio service technician and RF engineering trainee/assistant. We used VFD's for antenna rotators and PLC's for 30 MHz antenna commutation.