BS7671 Model Forms - new Amd 2 versions.

[Dave OCD]

I just had a look on the IET 'Model forms' site and looked in particular at the new EICR including Amendment 2 - looks like it was only added today ?
Well guess what - it's more long-winded than ever with the test results schedule now spread over two pages. Don't get me wrong I'm all for doing things right but this will just mean the whole thing takes longer and there's more for the cowboys to get wrong - opinions ?

EDIT - The schedule of inspections on the new EIC has been quite drastically compacted though !

 

[freddo]

Don't tell me they have added more tick boxes?!

 

[Julie.]

I believe it's a couple of tick boxes more, but spread over two pages to give more space per tick.

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes I suppose that might actually be useful as the space available was always ludicrously small.

 

[catdog1121]

Yeah I noticed this also...

The schedule of test results has been split into two, I think having RCD type and rating is good by then it has a BS(EN) number requirement, as we move to RCBO's this becomes kind of redundant, I mean its redundant anyway, surely if the overcurrent protection device is an RCBO then the RCD is in the RCBO, if its an MCB then it will be a split load board, seems like repetition that is not needed..

Also the requirement not for number of points served I have always considered pointless (Forgive the pun), Different electricians will count them differently, a bathroom with 3 downlights, some will class it as a lighting point so 1 point, some will say the switch and light so 2 points, some ignore the switch just count the downlights so 3 points and another will say the downlights and the switch... Also a point can be removed and another added so it tells you absolutely nothing, just takes longer..

I also think the SPD thing is going a bit far having to put the types, it will just be another thing that 50% will get wrong anyway so why cause confusion..

Another thing I noticed is there is a test button for RCD and test button for afdd, with afdd's most likely to be combined with rcbo's of what I have seen there is only one test button, does that button test the afdd or the rcd? If there is no specific button to test afdd part, its like these people don't actually live in the real world..

I am also slightly confused as to why the 5x RCD test has not been dropped, what was the point of doing it all this time? seems bizarre and not something I had expected, it will again be a change that will catch people out as I am sure many who do not keep up with things so well will continue to do all the tests and record the highest of the 5x tests..

 

[loz2754]

Also the requirement not for number of points served I have always considered pointless

This was never in the model forms previously, but enforced by the likes of NICEIC.

 

[telectrix]

 

[timhoward]

I am also slightly confused as to why the 5x RCD test has not been dropped, what was the point of doing it all this time?

The BSEN product standard published trip times for 1/2, x1 and x5, and I'd assume the original idea was to thoroughly make sure the device was still in spec.

I think a few things might have fed the change.
1 - sparks weren't always understanding the slightly complicated requirements of the test. The number of times I've said "that's passed at under 40ms at x1, you don't need to do a x5, it won't be slower!"
2 - Since type A's have been around, plenty were incorrectly putting their new shiny tester onto type A, and expecting the device to trip within type AC times. The BSEN product standard requires 350ma to trip a 30ma type A within 40ms and the machines don't deliver enough current, many delivering 210ma (30 x 5 x 1.4).
There never has been a pass result for a type A test published in BS7671, so for the test machine to say "fail" is misleading and has fed much confusion. Device manufacturers have complained that it was a perfect storm.
3 - the amount of DC leakage commonly about in the average house, especially on a split load / dual RCD board increases the chances of type AC not quite managing 40ms @ x5 under load when it still in fact works as well as it's ever going to. Replacing it like for like would not improve anything, and the unit is not faulty, it's the environment that is causing the problem. Conversely it would usually manage under 300ms at X1, if it isn't stuck though lack of testing at all that is.
4 - it was frankly rather tedious to check 1/2 twice, x1 twice, x5 twice especially in commercial/industrial premises during the day! My Metrel does a ramp test too on the Auto setting.

I've yet to read it all properly, but one video from the IET implies that checking both 0 degrees and 180 degrees is not required now. So it might be a single x1 test. We'll see in due course!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I just had a look on the IET 'Model forms' site and looked in particular at the new EICR including Amendment 2 - looks like it was only added today ?
Well guess what - it's more long-winded than ever with the test results schedule now spread over two pages. Don't get me wrong I'm all for doing things right but this will just mean the whole thing takes longer and there's more for the cowboys to get wrong - opinions ?

EDIT - The schedule of inspections on the new EIC has been quite drastically compacted though !

Just tick the right boxes this time Dave and stop moaning, otherwise you'll have another assessor 'go quiet'

 

[catdog1121]

Well ive just paid me money for new set of books, £175... And I didnt bother getting the electricians guide to building regs or the new NAPIT code breakers... It would have been nice if considering there is not a massive amount of change they could have made the books cheaper...

 

[pc1966]

Well ive just paid me money for new set of books, £175... And I didnt bother getting the electricians guide to building regs or the new NAPIT code breakers... It would have been nice if considering there is not a massive amount of change they could have made the books cheaper...

Always a bother that!

I see the regs & OSG are in stock, but the various guidance notes are due in a couple of months time.

I think I will be buying mine in a couple of months...once I have saved up!

 

[catdog1121]

Always a bother that!

I see the regs & OSG are in stock, but the various guidance notes are due in a couple of months time.

I think I will be buying mine in a couple of months...once I have saved up!

Oh really, I bought direct from napit, didnt say there was an issue, got the regs, onsite guide, guidance notes 3 and guidance note 8... Wonder when they will arrive..

 

[pc1966]

Oh really, I bought direct from napit, didnt say there was an issue, got the regs, onsite guide, guidance notes 3 and guidance note 8... Wonder when they will arrive..

I am a member of the IET for my sins (which are many and varied) so I get something like 25% or so discount there. Do you get something similar as a NAPIT member?

 

[Julie.]

...
I am also slightly confused as to why the 5x RCD test has not been dropped, what was the point of doing it all this time? seems bizarre and not something I had expected, it will again be a change that will catch people out as I am sure many who do not keep up with things so well will continue to do all the tests and record the highest of the 5x tests..

Yeah, I noticed that, I think it's a FUBAR, the only test required is 1x on ac and must trip <300ms.

I think they just can't be bothered to get it right.

And as you say, will cause confusion, with many not bothering to read the actual regs, and just follow the sheet!

 

[nicebutdim]

Wiringregulations.net have decent discounts, with a bit more discount on a limited selection of bundles - eg. regs, osg & gn3 for £134.