Can i legaly rip out the kitchen ring main and replace myself?

[mindiawl]

Hi, I wonder if anybody can help me please.
Years ago I passes my city & guilds in 16[SUP]th[/SUP] edition and have re wired many properties before I passed and since i passed, but none since part P regs was introduced.
Im very competent and know exactly what im doing so there is no issue there and im not looking for advice on how to wire a kitchen or a bathroom and so on.
What I am looking for advice on is as follows please.
1 I have just bought a property for renovation and re-sell, I need to rip out the kitchen and the existing ring to the point that the 2 ends of the ring that come from the c/u still exists but capped off by 2 junction boxes. Am i aloud to do this?
2 Can I then (as the new kitchen is being installed) put in the new ring and sockets and re attach to the 2 junction boxes mentioned above?
3 Can the ring be placed in those white plastic ducting (conduits) and then running the conduits along the wall behind the base units, with runs up to the sockets behind the tiles?
4 i also intend to knock the bathroom and one bedroom all in to one room which will then be the bathroom, can i legally change the light fitting to just a normal pendant and install a pull cord switch for it myself?
5 For the rest of the house some light switches and socket back boxes and faces are cracked, can i replace them?
6 If i am aloud then do I need to inform somebody that I am doing the work?
7 Do I need to get a certificate before i sell the property? If so then how much roughly will it cost?
Thank you all in advance for your answers.

 

[StuSpiers]

legally no........

If you want it done by the book and legal it would be cheaper to employ a part-pee sparks.

Yes you will need certs including part-p if you are re-selling

If the joint boxes are in floor they now need to be maintenance free (special kind)

pendant in bathroom? Are you sure your 16th?

 

[Plonker 3]

Number of electrical jobs that need notifying that aren't= 100,000s
Number of people prosecuted for not notifying work= 0

You do the maths.

 

[richy3333]

Basically what has been said ^^^^^ - no you can't legally do the work, however,

Are you in England or Wales because Part P only applies there?

We are now on the 17th Ed, Amendment 1 of the Regs, so the issue of competency is debatable...

Will the JB's be accessible to inspection? Why not crimp the joints?

 

[Amp David]

Hi, I wonder if anybody can help me please.
Years ago I passes my city & guilds in 16[SUP]th[/SUP] edition and have re wired many properties before I passed and since i passed, but none since part P regs was introduced.
Im very competent and know exactly what im doing so there is no issue there and im not looking for advice on how to wire a kitchen or a bathroom and so on.
What I am looking for advice on is as follows please.
1 I have just bought a property for renovation and re-sell, I need to rip out the kitchen and the existing ring to the point that the 2 ends of the ring that come from the c/u still exists but capped off by 2 junction boxes. Am i aloud to do this?
Nothing saying you can't rip it out as far as i'm aware.
2 Can I then (as the new kitchen is being installed) put in the new ring and sockets and re attach to the 2 junction boxes mentioned above?
You can, but you should of reall informed the LABC before hand
3 Can the ring be placed in those white plastic ducting (conduits) and then running the conduits along the wall behind the base units, with runs up to the sockets behind the tiles?
Part P has had nowt to do with how your cables are run, so aslong as it complies with regs then all is fine
4 i also intend to knock the bathroom and one bedroom all in to one room which will then be the bathroom, can i legally change the light fitting to just a normal pendant and install a pull cord switch for it myself?
If you inform LABC before had then yes
5 For the rest of the house some light switches and socket back boxes and faces are cracked, can i replace them?
Yes
6 If i am aloud then do I need to inform somebody that I am doing the work?
LABC before you start, then part with a chunk of cash
7 Do I need to get a certificate before i sell the property? If so then how much roughly will it cost?
I'm sure that once you've done all the work, you'll be testing it all anyway, (won't you??) so this will be your electrical installation cert or a couple of minor works certs. Plus your LABC will also want these so they can see all is completed properly.
Thank you all in advance for your answers.

Hope this helps

 

[mogga]

Legaly NO you would need to be partP and YES they would look for cert along with building warrant special concern about the bedroom /bathroom wall removal as unless the sockets ect are ALL more than 3mtr from bath the project could cause more bother than its worth ( would you want the mrs shaving her legs while you try n get some Kip?) I for one wouldnt want to watch as Im sure the last thing she wants to see it me scrubbing my bits n bobs
Another wee question If you have qualified to 16th you would need to update quals
Probably better getting local spark round and offer to labout to him if its money saving you want
Im sick of watching "Homes under the hammer" type programme n seeing thousands spent on paint,decoration new bathroom ect ect n sod all done to the electrics if your going to do it do it right not a covewreup job

 

[ferg]

I'm just wondering when it became Illegal to do do your own wiring?
It might be against regulations and guidelines but not, I'm sure, illegal.

 

[Guest55]

Number of electrical jobs that need notifying that aren't= 100,000s
Number of people prosecuted for not notifying work= 0

You do the maths.

Ok i will !

100,000 x 0 = 0

or

0 / 100,000 = 0

theres a pattern forming here.....
:-D

 

[Taylortwocities]

Number of electrical jobs that need notifying that aren't= 100,000s
Number of people prosecuted for not notifying work= 0

You do the maths.

Number of people who have trouble selling their houses because electrical work has been done but there is no notification of the work with the local authority = quite a lot.

I've done several installation reports just to satisfy auyers' solicitors because the vendor had done (or did) electrical works in bathroom, kitchens etc without the proper paperwork.

 

[Plonker 3]

Number of people who have trouble selling their houses because electrical work has been done but there is no notification of the work with the local authority = quite a lot.

I've done several installation reports just to satisfy auyers' solicitors because the vendor had done (or did) electrical works in bathroom, kitchens etc without the proper paperwork.

But a simple EICR seems to get round this problem, which costs anywhere between £35- 250 so the cost of doing themselves is massive even when this problem arises.

 

[richy3333]

OP - do you still have your test equipment, calibrated etc?

 

[Guest55]

Number of people who have trouble selling their houses because electrical work has been done but there is no notification of the work with the local authority = quite a lot.

I've done several installation reports just to satisfy auyers' solicitors because the vendor had done (or did) electrical works in bathroom, kitchens etc without the proper paperwork.

I bet if you ask these conyeyancing solicitors how many property sales have actually fallen through due to non -notification of electrical work the figure quoted will be around zero.

 

[richy3333]

I bet if you ask these conyeyancing solicitors how many property sales have actually fallen through due to non -notification of electrical work the figure quoted will be around zero.

Agreed, but only a numskull wouldn't use the info to haggle the price of the property down. I would. It has widening ramifications because you could then argue that if the vendor can't get the wiring correct then other utilities could be iffy also?

As an aside, I know we all hate Part P, but why do sparks so readily tell people on this forum to ignore the rules, particularly when people are grubbing around for work? Sort of, counter productive isn't it? It doesn't generate work for anyone and gives the public the impression that if we don't care about the industry then why should they? I don't hear my local gas fitter telling customers to ignore the rules and do their own installations?

 

[Plonker 3]

Agreed, but only a numskull wouldn't use the info to haggle the price of the property down. I would. It has widening ramifications because you could then argue that if the vendor can't get the wiring correct then other utilities could be iffy also?

That's the problem though, the wiring might well be fine. How many people have brought industrial units but not asked for the certs for any recent works carried out. Probably very few but it doesn't prevent the sale of it. Part P is the most ridiculous thing ever to happen to our trade, surely my 3 years at college where I gained my certs, my apprenticeship where I learned more than anything a college could ever teach me and my 18 years experience in the job means something. No it doesn't a piece of paper I have to pay over £400 a year for has more standing than any them now in law if I want to do most domestic work.

 

[richy3333]

That's the problem though, the wiring might well be fine. How many people have brought industrial units but not asked for the certs for any recent works carried out. Probably very few but it doesn't prevent the sale of it. Part P is the most ridiculous thing ever to happen to our trade, surely my 3 years at college where I gained my certs, my apprenticeship where I learned more than anything a college could ever teach me and my 18 years experience in the job means something. No it doesn't a piece of paper I have to pay over £400 a year for has more standing than any them now in law if I want to do most domestic work.

Fair-do's. If you feel that strongly I hope you contributed vociferously to the Government review of Part P

 

[thekingiam]

if your thinking of selling house on you may encounter problems in the future when going to sell as no certification of new works done. also if i was wanting to buy a house i would feel beter buying a house done by a reputabe electrical firm rather than the home owner having a go.

 

[Plonker 3]

But the OP in this case is a Electrician and says he feels competent to do the works. Yet some one want to take some money off him just to do the work. How is that in any way right?

 

[oldtimer]

Legally ?????? whats that if that was the case then the big DIY sheds would not be able to sell Joe Public a Consumer unit , Double insulated mains cables sockets I could go on but lets just sum this up its just a bloody mess

 

[Plonker 3]

But who knows what people are going to do with stuff brought from the big sheds, it may be for a office block in which case they can do as they please. Where if nothing bad happens to anyone due to the installation they will be fine. Where as us mortal sparks have to justify our worth to simply add a socket in out own kitchen.

 

[Spoon]

I understand where you are coming from Dillb but he now knows its wrong to add sockets to a kitchen. The choice is his.
I had to have some extra sockets in my kitchen. I could have done it myself, but Im not Part P registered. I had a choice. I chose to get a leccy in and do the job, and get all the paper work

 

[oldtimer]

I understand where you are coming from Dillb but he now knows its wrong to add sockets to a kitchen. The choice is his.
I had to have some extra sockets in my kitchen. I could have done it myself, but Im not Part P registered. I had a choice. I chose to get a leccy in and do the job, and get all the paper work

Yep thats right but he can still do and no regulation police will visit and if there is a problem say selling the house then he gets an IEICR and as for the sheds selling the equipment mmmmmmmmmmm a bit like its ok to grow waccy baccie but you cannot smoke it

 

[Taylortwocities]

The title of this thread is

[h=2]Can I legally rip out the kitchen ring main and replace myself?[/h]To which the answer is no, not unless you do the paperwork with the local authority and pay their fee.
Then you will need to demonstrate your competent handiwork.

 

[simpson93]

as above from other guys, maybe look at part p free to download from planningportal, if you havent done anywork since it has been introduced i would suggest getting someone else in.

 

[Engineer54]

But who knows what people are going to do with stuff brought from the big sheds, it may be for a office block in which case they can do as they please. Where if nothing bad happens to anyone due to the installation they will be fine. Where as us mortal sparks have to justify our worth to simply add a socket in out own kitchen.

If the truth be known, the vast majority of the big shed sales of CU's, are to S/E electrician's, many here have stated just that, where they are confirming buying CU's from the big sheds....

 

[Des 56]

If is other works require full plans approval,the electrical bits are included with no extra notification fee ?
Yes or No ?

 

[Amp David]

I thought yes for that one Des.

But probably isn't going to bother getting any kind of approval for any of it.

 

[ferg]

maybe I'm just being dumb here, or pedantic, But the question was can he do it legally and as far as I'm aware he would not be breaking any laws by doing it therefore not illegal.

I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea for diy electrics far from it but it's not illegal.

 

[Moses]

Number of electrical jobs that need notifying that aren't= 100,000s
Number of people prosecuted for not notifying work= 0

You do the maths.

I am sorry but I'm not getting at you.

But a general comment.

We as electricians should not be promoting or encouraging in any way with any of our comments on this fourm, DIY electrics.

If we do, as we do in a lot of the posts in a lot of the threads, then we can not blame the gov. for introducing an in-effective Part-P reg.

We all know the state of our profession. and any time we sniff any DIY punter, we should state the law as it applies, and not any comments that may encourage DIY electrics.

 

[Moses]

Agreed, but only a numskull wouldn't use the info to haggle the price of the property down. I would. It has widening ramifications because you could then argue that if the vendor can't get the wiring correct then other utilities could be iffy also?

As an aside, I know we all hate Part P, but why do sparks so readily tell people on this forum to ignore the rules, particularly when people are grubbing around for work? Sort of, counter productive isn't it? It doesn't generate work for anyone and gives the public the impression that if we don't care about the industry then why should they? I don't hear my local gas fitter telling customers to ignore the rules and do their own installations?

Hear Hear.

 

[Tonkatoy27]

maybe I'm just being dumb here, or pedantic, But the question was can he do it legally and as far as I'm aware he would not be breaking any laws by doing it therefore not illegal.

I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea for diy electrics far from it but it's not illegal.

I may be wrong, but the way I understand it is this.

Building regulations are Law
Part P covers a certain scope of electrical work including altering circuits in special locations
Part P says that any work that falls within the scope should be notified.
Not notifying is breaking building regs and hence the law.

I thought this was the whole point of part p, he nonly break down in the system being the enforcement.

 

[Taylortwocities]

as above from other guys, maybe look at part p free to download from planningportal, if you havent done anywork since it has been introduced i would suggest getting someone else in.

Well, I know many people don't like it
but
Building Regulations is STATUTORY
that means you are breaking the law unless you comply with the legislation.

Unlike BS7671, which is not statutory.
however
The Part P P1 statutory instrument (the legal bit) says you gotta install stuff so it is safe. And we wouldn't argue with that, would we.
but hanging on the back of P1 it is the Approved Document and that is where the notification stuff is put to annoy everyone.
Nad in the Approved Document is says something like electrical works should be installed in accordance with something like BS7671.

So you need to do it all, or just ignore it and hope it goes away.
Your choice. A bit like drinking and driving.

 

[Plonker 3]

I am sorry but I'm not getting at you.

But a general comment.

We as electricians should not be promoting or encouraging in any way with any of our comments on this fourm, DIY electrics.

If we do, as we do in a lot of the posts in a lot of the threads, then we can not blame the gov. for introducing an in-effective Part-P reg.

We all know the state of our profession. and any time we sniff any DIY punter, we should state the law as it applies, and not any comments that may encourage DIY electrics.

But here is the problem, this bloke wants to do a little extra work around his own home. He has to comply with Part P

If he wanted to build a 3,000,000 sq meter warehouse non of the electrics have to comply with anything just as long as nothing goes wrong with it. Now tell me in which circumstance is something more likely to go wrong.

 

[kingeri]

It is ludicrous that Part P applies only to domestic installations....as if to say that safety in industrial or commercial property is in some way less important.

 

[Rockingit]

But a simple EICR seems to get round this problem, which costs anywhere between £35- 250 so the cost of doing themselves is massive even when this problem arises.

And the joke here is that anyone who is competent can perform an EICR!!! So, do the work yourself, don't notify. When in five years time you come to sell and some conveyancer wants to make an arse of themselves, perform an EICR. Pointless exercise, and people wonder why we give the scams such a hard time.

 

[ferg]

Well I stand corrected then.
Perhaps I shouldn't have stuck my nose in. Part P doesn't apply here in Scotland and I obviously know less about part P than I thought.

I wonder what the penalty is for not notifying work you are clearly competent to do in your own home is.
Death by stoning?
The Electric chair

I can fully understand why part P exists but it just seems to punish the people who did things right in the first place.
And well lets face it cowboys arent going to stop being cowboys just because of part P which to me looks unenforceable.
However the compulsory scam registration does at least give the householder some measure of protection from John Wayne and friends.

Here in Scotland a more stringent scheme by building control was binned not that long ago.
Basically because not all registered electricians were good and not all unregistered electricians were bad.
I think BC worded it as varying standards

My apologies if my lack of part P knowledge got up anyones nose

 

[richy3333]

Well I stand corrected then.
Perhaps I shouldn't have stuck my nose in. Part P doesn't apply here in Scotland and I obviously know less about part P than I thought.

I wonder what the penalty is for not notifying work you are clearly competent to do in your own home is.
Death by stoning?
The Electric chair

I can fully understand why part P exists but it just seems to punish the people who did things right in the first place.
And well lets face it cowboys arent going to stop being cowboys just because of part P which to me looks unenforceable.
However the compulsory scam registration does at least give the householder some measure of protection from John Wayne and friends.

Here in Scotland a more stringent scheme by building control was binned not that long ago.
Basically because not all registered electricians were good and not all unregistered electricians were bad.
I think BC worded it as varying standards

My apologies if my lack of part P knowledge got up anyones nose

There is still a requirement to comply with the Scottish Building Standards, or is it now going to be suggested we ignore that too if it doesn't suit?

 

[Dave 85]

Im with Dillb on this one.
This guys, is by all rights a qualified electrician and its his own house. If he were to say "I plan to do 100 notifiable jobs a year, shall I bother getting registered?" I'd say yes, but to this....well I dont know why hes even bothered starting this thread. Is he worried the electrical gestapo have set up hidden cameras in his house and are waiting to pounce on him the second he opens a faceplate?

The thing about house sale is absolute balls. The only way it will ever come up is if the buyer has an EICR done as part of a survey, which most don't and if they do, and the work proves fine, which we'll assume it will as this is irrellevant to part P, then there is not going to be an issue. The buyer will have a report which may tell them there has been alterations done at some point since 2004 (or whenever it was blue and brown came in) and that the alterations have all been done properly and test out fine.

Also there is nothing to stop the OP filling out his own EIC or EICR which he can present to a buyer.

 

[Dave 85]

To summarise
Can you do it legally? No technically not without paying LABC a whole load of money.....
Should you do the work yourself? If you have the time and the ability, you'd be an idiot not to

 

[Moses]

I am sorry that I'm not getting to you.


We as electricians should not be promoting or encouraging in any way with any of our comments on this fourm, DIY electrics.

If we do, as we do in a lot of the posts in a lot of the threads, then we can not blame the gov. for introducing an in-effective Part-P reg.

We all know the state of our profession. and any time we sniff any DIY punter, we should state the law as it applies, and not any comments that may encourage DIY electrics.

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ring-main-replace-myself-2.html#ixzz1z7mj7Ki4​

 

[Plonker 3]

Moses, do you do your own decorating? Do you tell people how to drive?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Moses]

Moses, do you do your own decorating? Do you tell people how to drive?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Yes I do my own decorating, as god helps those that help themselves!

No I don't tell others how to drive, unless they are a danger to me or cut me up!

 

[Plonker 3]

So your quite happy to do work others have trained to do, but not so happy when it happens to your trade?


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I think the point Moses is trying to make would be better made on an thread with an obvious DIYer with no knowledge as it states on the homepage that these forums are for professional electricians. If this guy is 16th trained and has test gear then I've no problems with giving him advice to do work in his own home
A DIYer asking very basic questions however should be told only one thing, 'get an electrician in'.
The more advice we give DIYers, the more potential jobs we loose, although that obviously won't bother commercial/industrial sparkies.

I think Moses is trying to say that if you do your decorating wrong, you won't hurt yourself or a member of your family........

 

[Plonker 3]

I agree with anyone who doesn't know what they are doing should be told get someone who knows what they are doing in. But the OP has already said he is competant in what he doing and just seeking advice which os what this forum is for.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ferg]

There is still a requirement to comply with the Scottish Building Standards, or is it now going to be suggested we ignore that too if it doesn't suit?

I don't remember suggesting that any regulations be ignored at any point in any post I've ever made.

 

[richy3333]

I don't remember suggesting that any regulations be ignored at any point in any post I've ever made.

No, but the general theme on the forum recently is that we should just ignore the stuff we don't like, so I thought we may as well ignore the Scottish Building Standards too. To be honest, plenty of 'alleged' sparks round my way do.

To avoid double standards I hope that all those that advocate 'cherry picking' what/when and how the rules/Regs we are supposed to to, do make their views known to the 'powers to be' other than just 'sitting n bitchin' on a forum about the mess that is the electrical industry. If you don't like the rules, put up or shut up?

I'd argue that the OP is not competent, as by his own admittance he is only 16th Ed qualified. The definition of competent includes (in the first line) 'possesses sufficient technical knowledge'. As we are working to the 17th Ed, Amendment 1 his quals are out of date. But then no doubt plenty on the forum will tell the OP to fudge that too? So as we are in for a thread where stretching the truth, fudging issues and ignoring Regs we don't like is the order of the day I'm sending my wife out to do my days work. Heck, she here's me talk about electrical stuff often enough, sleeps with a spark and knows the Regs book is now green coloured, so that makes her qualified(ish) doesn't it?

 

[Guitarist]

Hi, I wonder if anybody can help me please.
Years ago I passes my city & guilds in 16[SUP]th[/SUP] edition and have re wired many properties before I passed and since i passed, but none since part P regs was introduced.
Im very competent and know exactly what im doing so there is no issue there and im not looking for advice on how to wire a kitchen or a bathroom and so on.
What I am looking for advice on is as follows please.
1 I have just bought a property for renovation and re-sell, I need to rip out the kitchen and the existing ring to the point that the 2 ends of the ring that come from the c/u still exists but capped off by 2 junction boxes. Am i aloud to do this?
2 Can I then (as the new kitchen is being installed) put in the new ring and sockets and re attach to the 2 junction boxes mentioned above?
3 Can the ring be placed in those white plastic ducting (conduits) and then running the conduits along the wall behind the base units, with runs up to the sockets behind the tiles?
4 i also intend to knock the bathroom and one bedroom all in to one room which will then be the bathroom, can i legally change the light fitting to just a normal pendant and install a pull cord switch for it myself?
5 For the rest of the house some light switches and socket back boxes and faces are cracked, can i replace them?
6 If i am aloud then do I need to inform somebody that I am doing the work?
7 Do I need to get a certificate before i sell the property? If so then how much roughly will it cost?
Thank you all in advance for your answers.

"those white plastic ducting" ?
You certain that you used to carry out lots of rewires?
What would our forum members say if someone came on here saying they were competent because they had passed their 17th edition I wonder?

 

[Spoon]

Im finding this thread a farce.
For this person to add circuits to his kitchen is illegal... end of.
There are people telling this person to break the law and just do the work.
I got told I was an idiot for getting a leccy guy in to do my work in the kitchen...

 

[ferg]

No, but the general theme on the forum recently is that we should just ignore the stuff we don't like, so I thought we may as well ignore the Scottish Building Standards too. To be honest, plenty of 'alleged' sparks round my way do.

Not guilty here

If everybody had the same attitude as you towards working to the regs the industry would be in better shape.
I certainly don't condone cherry picking to suit.

My comments on part P and registration are just just on the pros and cons of the system not advocating ignoring them.

Part of the problem with discussion forums is its hard to put across what I'm thinking in text.

And Tbh It would seem I could start and animated discussion in an empty thread
Again I apologise if my lack of knowledge on part P got up anyones nose

 

[dingledong]

after reading this . i have been in a forum where a person had no idea about 3 phase . asked a question and people were telling him what to do . i said with 3 phase its not bang ouch its BANG end off , and was asked to leave the forum . i agree when people with no idea come on here they should not be helped but continuously people on here are helped .
a 16th edition electrician i would trust i think to carry out work .
i thought this was a forum for electricians to moan groan and ask questions when stumped but it does seem to be a forum for
how do i do . . . and i turn my own lights off and on so i have some idea about electrics
or
electricians make loads of money i want to be one ooops no sorry i have always wanted to be an electrician what can i do to get there asap!
or maybe i'm a cynic
nothing wrong with the 13th edition of the regs . so i stick with them