Can i legaly rip out the kitchen ring main and replace myself?

[Moses]

Moses, do you do your own decorating? Do you tell people how to drive?

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Yes I do my own decorating, as god helps those that help themselves!

No I don't tell others how to drive, unless they are a danger to me or cut me up!

 

[Plonker 3]

So your quite happy to do work others have trained to do, but not so happy when it happens to your trade?


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[Tonkatoy27]

I think the point Moses is trying to make would be better made on an thread with an obvious DIYer with no knowledge as it states on the homepage that these forums are for professional electricians. If this guy is 16th trained and has test gear then I've no problems with giving him advice to do work in his own home
A DIYer asking very basic questions however should be told only one thing, 'get an electrician in'.
The more advice we give DIYers, the more potential jobs we loose, although that obviously won't bother commercial/industrial sparkies.

I think Moses is trying to say that if you do your decorating wrong, you won't hurt yourself or a member of your family........

 

[Plonker 3]

I agree with anyone who doesn't know what they are doing should be told get someone who knows what they are doing in. But the OP has already said he is competant in what he doing and just seeking advice which os what this forum is for.

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[ferg]

There is still a requirement to comply with the Scottish Building Standards, or is it now going to be suggested we ignore that too if it doesn't suit?

I don't remember suggesting that any regulations be ignored at any point in any post I've ever made.

 

[richy3333]

I don't remember suggesting that any regulations be ignored at any point in any post I've ever made.

No, but the general theme on the forum recently is that we should just ignore the stuff we don't like, so I thought we may as well ignore the Scottish Building Standards too. To be honest, plenty of 'alleged' sparks round my way do.

To avoid double standards I hope that all those that advocate 'cherry picking' what/when and how the rules/Regs we are supposed to to, do make their views known to the 'powers to be' other than just 'sitting n bitchin' on a forum about the mess that is the electrical industry. If you don't like the rules, put up or shut up?

I'd argue that the OP is not competent, as by his own admittance he is only 16th Ed qualified. The definition of competent includes (in the first line) 'possesses sufficient technical knowledge'. As we are working to the 17th Ed, Amendment 1 his quals are out of date. But then no doubt plenty on the forum will tell the OP to fudge that too? So as we are in for a thread where stretching the truth, fudging issues and ignoring Regs we don't like is the order of the day I'm sending my wife out to do my days work. Heck, she here's me talk about electrical stuff often enough, sleeps with a spark and knows the Regs book is now green coloured, so that makes her qualified(ish) doesn't it?

 

[Guitarist]

Hi, I wonder if anybody can help me please.
Years ago I passes my city & guilds in 16[SUP]th[/SUP] edition and have re wired many properties before I passed and since i passed, but none since part P regs was introduced.
Im very competent and know exactly what im doing so there is no issue there and im not looking for advice on how to wire a kitchen or a bathroom and so on.
What I am looking for advice on is as follows please.
1 I have just bought a property for renovation and re-sell, I need to rip out the kitchen and the existing ring to the point that the 2 ends of the ring that come from the c/u still exists but capped off by 2 junction boxes. Am i aloud to do this?
2 Can I then (as the new kitchen is being installed) put in the new ring and sockets and re attach to the 2 junction boxes mentioned above?
3 Can the ring be placed in those white plastic ducting (conduits) and then running the conduits along the wall behind the base units, with runs up to the sockets behind the tiles?
4 i also intend to knock the bathroom and one bedroom all in to one room which will then be the bathroom, can i legally change the light fitting to just a normal pendant and install a pull cord switch for it myself?
5 For the rest of the house some light switches and socket back boxes and faces are cracked, can i replace them?
6 If i am aloud then do I need to inform somebody that I am doing the work?
7 Do I need to get a certificate before i sell the property? If so then how much roughly will it cost?
Thank you all in advance for your answers.

"those white plastic ducting" ?
You certain that you used to carry out lots of rewires?
What would our forum members say if someone came on here saying they were competent because they had passed their 17th edition I wonder?

 

[Spoon]

Im finding this thread a farce.
For this person to add circuits to his kitchen is illegal... end of.
There are people telling this person to break the law and just do the work.
I got told I was an idiot for getting a leccy guy in to do my work in the kitchen...

 

[ferg]

No, but the general theme on the forum recently is that we should just ignore the stuff we don't like, so I thought we may as well ignore the Scottish Building Standards too. To be honest, plenty of 'alleged' sparks round my way do.

Not guilty here

If everybody had the same attitude as you towards working to the regs the industry would be in better shape.
I certainly don't condone cherry picking to suit.

My comments on part P and registration are just just on the pros and cons of the system not advocating ignoring them.

Part of the problem with discussion forums is its hard to put across what I'm thinking in text.

And Tbh It would seem I could start and animated discussion in an empty thread
Again I apologise if my lack of knowledge on part P got up anyones nose

 

[dingledong]

after reading this . i have been in a forum where a person had no idea about 3 phase . asked a question and people were telling him what to do . i said with 3 phase its not bang ouch its BANG end off , and was asked to leave the forum . i agree when people with no idea come on here they should not be helped but continuously people on here are helped .
a 16th edition electrician i would trust i think to carry out work .
i thought this was a forum for electricians to moan groan and ask questions when stumped but it does seem to be a forum for
how do i do . . . and i turn my own lights off and on so i have some idea about electrics
or
electricians make loads of money i want to be one ooops no sorry i have always wanted to be an electrician what can i do to get there asap!
or maybe i'm a cynic
nothing wrong with the 13th edition of the regs . so i stick with them

 

[Guitarist]

Many people come on here claiming to be electricians so that they can be told what to do with members' blessings.
I think most of us have a good idea when someone is actually qualified by the terminology used, along with the type of questions, and we tailor our advice accordingly.
Also, there are a few practising electricians about with no formal training who have managed to wing their way through the simple jobs out there, and of course they will be pro "have a go" because it's probably how they taught themselves.

 

[RISElectrical]

I think it would be a bit of a P*** take to sit here and say that a qualified electrician can not undertake electrical works in his own home!

Yes it is technically a breach of the building regs to not notify however that is all it is, and as has been said the general opinion is that the works you do will go unpunished as such. I am in no way recommending this action however I will admit to having done works in my own home.

Regarding the house sale and the EICR.... well this is the bit that in my option is stupid...

... You cannot legally without being a scam member or notify carry out a kitchen rewire. However after the rewire is done, you are legally allowed to carry out a full EICR of your property (this cert will be accepted by LABC usually in absence of an EIC for the kitchen works also). So therefore you can sell your house with an up to date EICR and all is good.

 

[Guest55]

I think it would be a bit of a P*** take to sit here and say that a qualified electrician can not undertake electrical works in his own home!

Yes it is technically a breach of the building regs to not notify however that is all it is, and as has been said the general opinion is that the works you do will go unpunished as such. I am in no way recommending this action however I will admit to having done works in my own home.

Regarding the house sale and the EICR.... well this is the bit that in my option is stupid...

... You cannot legally without being a scam member or notify carry out a kitchen rewire. However after the rewire is done, you are legally allowed to carry out a full EICR of your property (this cert will be accepted by LABC usually in absence of an EIC for the kitchen works also). So therefore you can sell your house with an up to date EICR and all is good.

^^^Thank god for the voice of reason , theres alot of rubbish being spouted in this thread.

 

[Guitarist]

..

... You cannot legally without being a scam member or notify carry out a kitchen rewire. However after the rewire is done, you are legally allowed to carry out a full EICR of your property (this cert will be accepted by LABC usually in absence of an EIC for the kitchen works also). So therefore you can sell your house with an up to date EICR and all is good.

This is a ridiculous state of affairs, I agree.
Remember though, ANY COMPETENT PERSON is allowed to do any electrical work, providing they have the skills, knowledge and test gear to carry out the work. Notifiable work however MUST, by law, be notified either by someone registered on a scheme or by contacting LBC.

The rubbish Biff, as already mentioned, is to cherry pick the rules in life we think suit us!
If the OP is a qualified electrician with test gear and knowledge of the regs, then YES, he can do the work himself as long as he notifies LBC in advance (as you would on any building work). End of.

 

[mogga]

But the OP in this case is a Electrician and says he feels competent to do the works. Yet some one want to take some money off him just to do the work. How is that in any way right?

where does he say he is an electrician? he passed 16th edd yes but doesnt say hes an electrician

 

[Guitarist]

where does he say he is an electrician? he passed 16th edd yes but doesnt say hes an electrician

Exactly! I know several factory fitters who never touch wiring at all, but their Companies send them on the regs courses in case they ever have to disconnect a motor. Anyone can claim to be an electrician, but look at how they use terminology and the questions they ask if you really want to be sure.

 

[dwood]

I understand where you are coming from Dillb but he now knows its wrong to add sockets to a kitchen. The choice is his.
I had to have some extra sockets in my kitchen. I could have done it myself, but Im not Part P registered. I had a choice. I chose to get a leccy in and do the job, and get all the paper work

you can legally do the work yourself you will, have to notify your building control officer who will do an inspection at first fix if that goes ok he will give you the go ahead to 2nd fix.They usually come back when the installation is complete to collect your test certificates(copies available on internet) they then sign your work off as compliant

 

[Dave 85]

I like to cherry pick laws......
Stealing: Bad
Rape: Bad
Murder: Ok in some cases
Drink driving: never hurt anyone
Speeding: Ok
Taking drugs: Fine
Selling drugs: No probs
Fraud: Ok
No seatbelt: Ok
Driving on phone: Gotta be done


For those wondering......
No I am not being serious

 

[Plonker 3]

where does he say he is an electrician? he passed 16th edd yes but doesnt say hes an electrician

Years ago I passes my city & guilds in 16[SUP]th[/SUP] edition and have re wired many properties before I passed and since i passed, but none since part P regs was introduced.

Now that says to me he is a electrician, like it or not you don't need qualifications to be a electrician.

Definiton

electrician[ɪlɛkˈtrɪʃən ˌiːlɛk-]n(Business / Professions) a person whose occupation is the installation, maintenance, and repair of electrical devices​

​

 

[Guitarist]

Now that says to me he is a electrician, like it or not you don't need qualifications to be a electrician.

Definiton

​

I disagree with that. There are people who dabble in electrics, and may well have been sent on a 16th edition course by their employers years ago (many firms even bring a trainer in for a few days to save money), and then there are those with a proper apprenticeship/training scheme and qualifications under their belt.

Quote:

3 Can the ring be placed in those white plastic ducting (conduits) and then running the conduits along the wall behind the base units, with runs up to the sockets behind the tiles?
​

You think an electrician would use those words?

​

 

[RISElectrical]

I disagree with that. There are people who dabble in electrics, and may well have been sent on a 16th edition course by their employers years ago (many firms even bring a trainer in for a few days to save money), and then there are those with a proper apprenticeship/training scheme and qualifications under their belt.

Quote:

3 Can the ring be placed in those white plastic ducting (conduits) and then running the conduits along the wall behind the base units, with runs up to the sockets behind the tiles?
​

You think an electrician would use those words?

​

He does use the term conduit tho?

 

[Plonker 3]

I disagree with that. There are people who dabble in electrics, and may well have been sent on a 16th edition course by their employers years ago (many firms even bring a trainer in for a few days to save money), and then there are those with a proper apprenticeship/training scheme and qualifications under their belt.

​

There are people doing similar courses with the advent of the Electrical Trainee and these are being allowed to join a Part P scheme with probably less experience than the OP. Where is the difference?

 

[Guitarist]

He does use the term conduit tho?

So does my 16 year old son. Even DIY'ers know some words used by electricians

 

[Guitarist]

There are people doing similar courses with the advent of the Electrical Trainee and these are being allowed to join a Part P scheme with probably less experience than the OP. Where is the difference?

You actually know how much experience the OP has had?
Not sure why you are so convinced that people who come on here, claiming to be electricians, actually are when they use terms like "

those white plastic ducting".

​

​
​

 

[RISElectrical]

I was slightly tongue in cheek my comment, however in the OP it said passed my C&G on 16th edition or words to that effect, now i took that to mean, did an apprenticeship in the 16th edition, not just sat the 16th edition exam.

Maybe the OP could clear this up?

 

[Plonker 3]

You actually know how much experience the OP has had?
Not sure why you are so convinced that people who come on here, claiming to be electricians, actually are when they use terms like "

those white plastic ducting".​

Well as he said that he had rewired several houses before then I would that is competence enough to say yes he is a electrician. There is lots of advice given on here without anyone actually asking to show there qualifications or competence,so why is this thread any different?​

 

[DPG]

Well as he said that he had rewired several houses before then I would that is competence enough to say yes he is a electrician. There is lots of advice given on here without anyone actually asking to show there qualifications or competence,so why is this thread any different?[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/I]

Mmmm. I've plastered several walls before, but they were all crap! Daz

-

 

[Fleetwood]

I think it stinks a bit that a fully qualified person is unable to do certain work just because he isn't Part P registered. It's another government way to collect money. House wiring isnt as complicated a factory installations which involve 3 phase etc. I realise Building regs can change and a sparkes needs to keep updated, but part 3 is overkill. Likewise, I don't think any person should attempt electrical work unless they have had training, allbeit in factory, home or telecommes environment. What do they know about running cable and correct termination. Probably end up with loose connections and no spare to play with when you come to change a fitting. Mind you, I'm sure a lot of Part 3 Qlfd. are guilty of not leaving enough spare.

 

[Dave 85]

'Part 3 Qlfd'


eh?

 

[Knobhead]

The OP seems to have gone missing, so you can guess all you like.

 

[Guitarist]

Well as he said that he had rewired several houses before then I would that is competence enough to say yes he is a electrician. There is lots of advice given on here without anyone actually asking to show there qualifications or competence,so why is this thread any different?[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/I]

Personally, as I said earlier, I know loads of fitters who know nothing about electrics but used to do rewires in the old days, armed with their 16th edition company paid-for qualification and a bit of advice from various sparkys.
You think what you want, and so will I.

 

[Fleetwood]

Registered not quaified, sorry guys, terminological error.

 

[Fleetwood]

Registered not quaified, sorry guys, terminological error.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Competent?

 

[sys3]

As with gas, electrics should be left to trained professionals.

 

[Silly Sausage]

If you read the Part P document, it is allowable to replace any cable and accessories that are already there, without notifying.
Please correct me on that if I'm wrong!
So essentially you can rewire a complete circuit at will, following the exact path of the old one of course!, but don't touch the protection.
Apart from the addition of the pro, how does that really differ from installing a completely new cct?
It's a load of...

 

[Fleetwood]

Are you saying that an unregistered Part P person can quite happily replace a hard wired oven as they only have to connect from the oven to the connection outlet. No fixed wiring disturbed, no change of MCB. Nothing to notify.

 

[Plonker 3]

Just because you are not registered doesn't mean you are not competent to do the job.

In answer to your question yes that is correct, or replace any other cable as long as the route is unchanged and the CSA remains the same.

 

[Guest55]

The OP seems to have gone missing, so you can guess all you like.

Well after 4 / 5 pages of debate i'm hoping he's completely ignored us and cracked on with the job lol.

 

[RISElectrical]

Id have done the job without asking you lot haha, I'd of been able to sleep easier that way!