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S

Spazz

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Hi all

I need the regulations (in BGB) that apply to the cooker isolation and appliance isolation (plug under worktop - isolation above)

The reason I ask is these Kitchens I am installing the design has allowed for the washing mashing to be placed under the sink drainer and the kitchen fitter wants the cooker isolation within 300mm of the cooker to make it easier for him to install the worktop - as this is what the other electrician did (saying that he also installed sockets directly over sinks - I know this is not allowed!)

Thanks in advanced
 
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S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
There's no reg it's advised 300mm from sink & cooker
 
S

Spazz

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
ok thanks sedgy - the kitchen fitter wants the cooker isolation at 150mm and the washing machine isolation at 2m from washer next to the cooker isolation - so they are clear of the sink worktop - the set up is a U shape with the cooker in the middle and sink on one side.

Thank again
 
S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
If your going to be working with this kitchen fitter just do it you will get on alot better


1500 is normally for a granite upstand on the work top I go for 1100 if only a100mm upstand
 
S

Spazz

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
I go in on day 1 rip out all electrics and install a new ring in the kitchen, change the light to a fluorescent light, install a new cooker circuit and install an extractor fan
Kitchen fitter goes in on day 2 and installs a new kitchen
Tiler goes in on day 3 and tiles
Painter goes in on day 4 and paints

If anything is wrong there is no option to go back and if anyone knocks the socket or anything they don't tell me or anything which really gets on my nerves!

We are doing 5 kitchens a week, half also require a new CU as well - and they still expect the whole electrics done in 1 day, all in trunking.

These are council houses - I had an apprentice helping me to start but he could not pick up a spirit level not long use one plus he could not be bothered so he only lasted 4 days and he was gone! (plus he could not use a tape measure - everything he did I had to redo myself)

This kitchen fitter had worked with the other sparky for 1 year but because the other sparky wanted more money he left
This kitchen fitter only moans when he changes the plans and a socket is in the way because he changed the plans - nothing to do with me


The council inspector is the bigger problem - he will pull anything and everything - he pulled the other day a junction box placed in a cupboard - he wants all junction boxes in the roof void (even though you cant inspect them!) - I crimp everything so waiting to see what this inspector says about that
 
S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
You need to print off the regs to show him as he's asking for things that don't comply he's an inspector who know f all!!! Probably some arse licker

I had an enquiry a few months ago to do the same as this
i didn't bother replying as they can end up costing you money or they don't pay so I wasn't going to be a busy fool quantity wasn't a problem as ther was 2 years work there
 
S

Spazz

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
I dont ever meet this inspector - he inspects 1 month after work finished.

The brief states:
The kitchen must be on its own circuit
The ring for the rest of the house must be joined using JB (which they provide - not MF)
The new ring must go back to the CU with a new 32A MCB or RCBO and be RCD protected
All joints (inc JB) must be placed in roof space
All must comply with BS7671
Only Minor Works Certificates will be excepted - dont know how this works with a new CU - they have a EIC from me - sod them!
Extractor fan must be installed (sometimes impossible due to no external wall)

They supply all parts - JB, CU, MCB, RCBO, 2.5 T&E, 6mm T&E, sockets, back boxes, trunking, FCUs, fan isolation, cooker isolation and access point

no crimps, no heat shrink, no earth slaving

they say I only have to provide labor - they pay me £115 per kitchen - I have to spend £15 on extra parts I need (above) and notification and fuel and bridge toll (£0.75 each way - 4 times a day) (£30 per kitchen in total)

I get extra for CUs - not sure how much extra


But its either this or £110 per week on benefits & housing benefit (£80 per week)
 
T

TPES

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
It sounds as If it actually costs you to do these kitchens.. I can't see where any profit at all comes in.
 
S

StuSpiers

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Been there done that, got the t-shirt.

You won't make any money that's for sure, but you may learn something.
 
S

Spazz

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
I make £80 for a days work - crap I know! - £400 per week, thats after all my insurance, NAPIT, notifications, fuel, Bridge fees, and anything I have to buy

Thats £1733 per month - I cant touch that on benefits or any other job.
 
S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
As I said earlier busy fool
Out of the £115 take out your fuel and your time doing certificate and the tax your left with £60 for working your tayters off to get it done in 1 day
no thanks!!
Q, are you a time served spark
 
M

Mark_Burgess

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
How does the notifiable work get notified?
 
I dont ever meet this inspector - he inspects 1 month after work finished.

The brief states:
The kitchen must be on its own circuit
The ring for the rest of the house must be joined using JB (which they provide - not MF)
The new ring must go back to the CU with a new 32A MCB or RCBO and be RCD protected
All joints (inc JB) must be placed in roof space
All must comply with BS7671
Only Minor Works Certificates will be excepted - dont know how this works with a new CU - they have a EIC from me - sod them!
Extractor fan must be installed (sometimes impossible due to no external wall)

They supply all parts - JB, CU, MCB, RCBO, 2.5 T&E, 6mm T&E, sockets, back boxes, trunking, FCUs, fan isolation, cooker isolation and access point

no crimps, no heat shrink, no earth slaving

they say I only have to provide labor - they pay me £115 per kitchen - I have to spend £15 on extra parts I need (above) and notification and fuel and bridge toll (£0.75 each way - 4 times a day) (£30 per kitchen in total)

I get extra for CUs - not sure how much extra


But its either this or £110 per week on benefits & housing benefit (£80 per week)
It states all work to BS7671, so therefore MF connections in roof space implied.
Btw, very few building inspectors know anything about electrics in my experience, so you must do what is required.

You are correct... New circuit needs an EIC, so make that clear, along with extra time needed to fill it in.
 
S

Spazz

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Just been reading the Napit MWC and it says that is enough for 1 new circuit?? I always thought a new circuit was EIC. Even though I am doing 2 new circuits so hence the need for me to do the EIC.

What part in 7671 can I use to clear my point about the below:
1. only MF connections above ceiling
2. only EIC can be issued not MWC
3. Distance from sink and cooker for isolation


I am a NAPIT registered spark, with 7 years experience (only 1 year registered - rest been notifying to LABC as been doing work for grandfather and he would not register with anyone!)


The £35 includes everything including the notifications to NAPIT and the annual fee (divided by number of kitchens I do per year) and all fuel and anything I have to provide (inc servicing my meter and insurances).

I have got these kitchens (without ding CU change) down to 6-7 hours now and can see room to bring it down by another hour if needed.

Again I been so slow the last 2 months and this work is better than being on benefits
 
Just been reading the Napit MWC and it says that is enough for 1 new circuit?? I always thought a new circuit was EIC. Even though I am doing 2 new circuits so hence the need for me to do the EIC.

What part in 7671 can I use to clear my point about the below:
1. only MF connections above ceiling Reg 526.3 (vi) appertains to Maintenance free Junction boxes

2. only EIC can be issued not MWC Appendix 6 page 394 concerning MEIWC
The minor Works certificate is intended to be used for additions and alterations to an installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit

3. Distance from sink and cooker for isolation There is nothing in the regs concerning directly the distances for either a cooker control unit/Isolator or a socket outlet
In regards to isolation remote from equipment read and quote reg 537.2.1.5
Sockets you have to be guided by section 522 with relation to external influences and 522.3



I am a NAPIT registered spark, with 7 years experience (only 1 year registered - rest been notifying to LABC as been doing work for grandfather and he would not register with anyone!)


The £35 includes everything including the notifications to NAPIT and the annual fee (divided by number of kitchens I do per year) and all fuel and anything I have to provide (inc servicing my meter and insurances).

I have got these kitchens (without ding CU change) down to 6-7 hours now and can see room to bring it down by another hour if needed.

Again I been so slow the last 2 months and this work is better than being on benefits

.......................................
 
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