UK Cowboy electrician

[Grant1987]

Surely comparing BS3036 re-wireable fuses with a single upfront 30mA RCD is akin to comparing apples with tennis balls?

Yes that’s been my point for months, years ?
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Yes that’s been my point for months, years ?

My point has always been to upgrade and the fact that this particular post has an rcd is a relief to me. Although still not up to my standards it’s nice to see it’s covered with rcd

 

[nicebutdim]

Yes that’s been my point for months, years ?

The difference being that, aside from lacking RCD protection, that old installation may be perfectly fine and will have met the regulations in place at time of installation.

The issue highlighted by the OP is a new installation that doesn't comply with current regulations.

 

[static zap]

who in their right mind starts with the lowest breaker next to the main switch

I understand this , his aim was to break "Every rule" ..Defies common sense as well !

 

[nicebutdim]

My point has always been to upgrade and the fact that this particular post has an rcd is a relief to me. Although still not up to my standards it’s nice to see it’s covered with rcd

You state a preference for dual RCD boards which obviously meet current regulations (other than TT systems I believe), but why not recommend RCBO boards given that they are now available for little additional cost? Less chance of nuisance tripping for the customer and simpler fault finding, should problems occur in the future.

 

[ipf]

Surely comparing BS3036 re-wireable fuses with a single upfront 30mA RCD is akin to comparing apples with tennis balls?

Depends on the situation and reason for comparison, but it's not particularly unusual to find such a CU fed via a 30mA ELCB or RCD.

 

[Grant1987]

The difference being that, aside from lacking RCD protection, that old installation may be perfectly fine and will have met the regulations in place at time of installation.

The issue highlighted by the OP is a new installation that doesn't comply with current regulations.

Ahh no don’t fall into that trap as all the older more experienced electricians always mention about deviations from BS7671 yes at time of the install 40 years ago!!! It was fine. You test to the current regulations and times have changed unfortunately and our standards have improved. Dont lick arse on here to impress ppl
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You state a preference for dual RCD boards which obviously meet current regulations (other than TT systems I believe), but why not recommend RCBO boards given that they are now available for little additional cost? Less chance of nuisance tripping for the customer and simpler fault finding, should problems occur in the future.

RCBO’s ??? you’re winding me up here surely do you know how much they cost?

 

[nicebutdim]

Ahh no don’t fall into that trap as all the older more experienced electricians always mention about deviations from BS7671 yes at time of the install 40 years ago!!! It was fine. You test to the current regulations and times have changed unfortunately and our standards have improved. Dont lick arse on here to impress ppl

I'm not licking anyone's arse and I'm more than happy to stand corrected on any issue.

If you were testing the installation pictured in the first post, would it not be deemed unsatisfactory as it doesn't meet the regulations in place at the time of installation - ie the current regulations.

It's all very well having strong opinions about old installations, but it's a bit odd to defend a non-compliant new installation in the process of doing so.

 

[Mark Wright]

That’s absolutely criminal....

who in their right mind starts with the lowest breaker next to the main switch

What has that got to do with anything?

 

[nicebutdim]

RCBO’s ??? you’re winding me up here surely do you know how much they cost?

About £12 nett for Fusebox Type A RCBOs.
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Depends on the situation and reason for comparison, but it's not particularly unusual to find such a CU fed via a 30mA ELCB or RCD.

Indeed.

That reminds me of yet another cowboy electrician that worked on my parent's house. Many, many years ago someone explained to them why it was necessary to fit an ELCB, so they gave them the go ahead to do so. The ELCB was duly mounted by their meter, but never connected to the supply - sat there for decades with cable knockouts intact, while they assumed everything was much safer than before.

 

[Grant1987]

I'm not licking anyone's arse and I'm more than happy to stand corrected on any issue.

If you were testing the installation pictured in the first post, would it not be deemed unsatisfactory as it doesn't meet the regulations in place at the time of installation - ie the current regulations.

It's all very well having strong opinions about old installations, but it's a bit odd to defend a non-compliant new installation in the process of doing so.

I didn’t say it was non compliant I said it was nice to see an rcd let alone 2 of them which I would prefer. This isn’t non compliant on the way I’m saying Rcd protection for lights and sockets for potential outdoor use. The other points then yes it’s not great but I’m stating I’m happy to see an rcd. Mate you seem like your fairly new to electrics don’t look for reasons to not upgrade look for reasons to improve safety
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About £12 nett for Fusebox Type A RCBOs.
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Indeed.

That reminds me of yet another cowboy electrician that worked on my parent's house. Many, many years ago someone explained to them why it was necessary to fit an ELCB, so they gave them the go ahead to do so. The ELCB was duly mounted by their meter, but never connected to the supply - sat there for decades with cable knockouts intact, while they assumed everything was much safer than before.

About £12 nett for Fusebox Type A RCBOs.
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Indeed.

That reminds me of yet another cowboy electrician that worked on my parent's house. Many, many years ago someone explained to them why it was necessary to fit an ELCB, so they gave them the go ahead to do so. The ELCB was duly mounted by their meter, but never connected to the supply - sat there for decades with cable knockouts intact, while they assumed everything was much safer than before.

£12 nett rcbos? Wtf are they mate ? most common rcbos are £30 a pop Minimal and if you were doing a consumer unit upgrade you wudn be buying rcbos
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What has that got to do with anything?

Think it has sumin to do with discrimination, I would never put the lowest sized breaker next to rcd just common practice to go down in size is that what you do?

 

[ipf]

I'm not licking anyone's arse and I'm more than happy to stand corrected on any issue.

If you were testing the installation pictured in the first post, would it not be deemed unsatisfactory as it doesn't meet the regulations in place at the time of installation - ie the current regulations.

It's all very well having strong opinions about old installations, but it's a bit odd to defend a non-compliant new installation in the process of doing so.

The only problem you have there is that, if an independent EICR was undertaken on that particular installation, it could well be deemed satisfactory....full of C3's.

 

[nicebutdim]

I didn’t say it was non compliant I said it was nice to see an rcd let alone 2 of them which I would prefer. This isn’t non compliant on the way I’m saying Rcd protection for lights and sockets for potential outdoor use. The other points then yes it’s not great but I’m stating I’m happy to see an rcd. Mate you seem like your fairly new to electrics don’t look for reasons to not upgrade look for reasons to improve safety
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£12 nett rcbos? Wtf are they mate ? most common rcbos are £30 a pop Minimal and if you were doing a consumer unit upgrade you wudn be buying rcbos

Given that the installation in question is 4 months old, it's hardly surprising that RCD protection is included - it would have taken a bit of effort to source a CU that didn't include some form of RCCB.

I'm not an electrician and nor do I claim to be and I'm certainly not looking "for reasons to not upgrade". As it happens, it was improving electrical safety that led me down the route of seeking to retrain.

You seem to be under the impression that I'm trying to score points or adopting an adversarial position, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I asked a question about a comment you posted and, rather than answer it, you decided to go down the route of making personal comments.

As for £12 RCBOs; I'm not here to assist anyone with their procurement process - at least not without first discussing renumeration. If you want to assume prices rather than check them, far be it from me to tell you how to run your business.

 

[Mark Wright]

"Think it has sumin to do with discrimination, I would never put the lowest sized breaker next to rcd just common practice to go down in size is that what you do?"

I suppose it's neater that's it but not always possible when replacing a board.

Edit:it is common like you say, I can see a whole thread on the topic

 

[nicebutdim]

The only problem you have there is that, if an independent EICR was undertaken on that particular installation, it could well be deemed satisfactory....full of C3's.

Thank you!

We know from the OP that no EIC was issued to the customer, but what would be the situation be if the installer had done so with this choice of CU?

 

[davesparks]

it would have taken a bit of effort to source a CU that didn't include some form of RCCB.

It would take no more effort than a CU with an RCCB, all you have to do is walk in to the wholesalers and ask for one.

 

[telectrix]

I didn’t say it was non compliant I said it was nice to see an rcd let alone 2 of them which I would prefer. This isn’t non compliant on the way I’m saying Rcd protection for lights and sockets for potential outdoor use. The other points then yes it’s not great but I’m stating I’m happy to see an rcd. Mate you seem like your fairly new to electrics don’t look for reasons to not upgrade look for reasons to improve safety
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£12 nett rcbos? Wtf are they mate ? most common rcbos are £30 a pop Minimal and if you were doing a consumer unit upgrade you wudn be buying rcbos
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Think it has sumin to do with discrimination, I would never put the lowest sized breaker next to rcd just common practice to go down in size is that what you do?

tghe wholepoint of the thread is not that it's safer with a single RCD, but that the install is not compliant with current regs. and the customer has been ripped off.
i use BG gear as standard. compact RCBOs are £16 odd, I would have done that as all RCBOs, with 2 spare ways for under £600 with a full teat test of the installation and a EIC provided.

 

[Grant1987]

Ah right I was under the impression you had carried out plenty of EICRs and knew what you was talking about, yes I do know my prices of rcbos that’s for sure And £12 “NETT” I’ve never heard of ?‍ No I’m not trying to be personal but you have posted numerous times against my opinions when I’ve posted.

 

[nicebutdim]

It would take no more effort than a CU with an RCCB, all you have to do is walk in to the wholesalers and ask for one.

Fair point about a flippant comment, but you get what I was driving at.

 

[Grant1987]

tghe wholepoint of the thread is not that it's safer with a single RCD, but that the install is not compliant with current regs. and the customer has been ripped off.
i use BG gear as standard. compact RCBOs are £16 odd, I would have done that as all RCBOs, with 2 spare ways for under £600 with a full teat test of the installation and a EIC provided.

Ok so on total cost of materials you were looking at £150 for BG consumer with 6 x rcbos?
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tghe wholepoint of the thread is not that it's safer with a single RCD, but that the install is not compliant with current regs. and the customer has been ripped off.
i use BG gear as standard. compact RCBOs are £16 odd, I would have done that as all RCBOs, with 2 spare ways for under £600 with a full teat test of the installation and a EIC provided.

Also just curious why do you use rcbos rather than dual rcds?

 

[telectrix]

Ok so on total cost of materials you were looking at £150 for BG consumer with 6 x rcbos?
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Also just curious why do you use rcbos rather than dual rcds?

not far out. think about £170 inc vat. bear in mind that within the price i posted, I'd remedy 1 or 2 small faults e.g. replace a cracked accessory or 2.