Do most electricians understand economy 7?

[Denco1]

Recently my landlord replaced a MEM2000 which was configured with an off peak spur to the immersion heater, to a BG unit where the electrician has made the spur permanently live.

This is the second property I've lived in where this has happened, is it bad luck or is economy 7 knowledge dying out?

 

[littlespark]

There are a number of E7 configurations that it could be.

One system only the space and water heaters are on low rate overnight, the timeclock switched in an entire second fuse board and only circuits from this board was reduced rate…

Or, All electricity became low rate overnight. Not just the heaters.


Is it a single immersion in the tank or 2? Is there a controller anywhere on the circuit? (Like an old e7 quartz timer?)

 

[Denco1]

There are a number of E7 configurations that it could be.

One system only the space and water heaters are on low rate overnight, the timeclock switched in an entire second fuse board and only circuits from this board was reduced rate…

Or, All electricity became low rate overnight. Not just the heaters.


Is it a single immersion in the tank or 2? Is there a controller anywhere on the circuit? (Like an old e7 quartz timer?)

It's two immersions in the tank. The upper was connected to the regular live with a booster switch, and the bottom was on the E7 live.

There are no timers, the electrician simply disconnected the E7 live at the meter and didn't bother to provide a satisfactory alternative. I've attached a pic of the CU before the changes.

 

[littlespark]

ok.. so is the bottom immersion not supplied at all now?

You still have storage heaters, or has all the off peak been disconnected?


Old system, the entire left hand side of the board was energised at the off peak rate time, turning on the storage heaters and the bottom immersion, heating the entire tank overnight.
2 sets of tails feeding the board?

The top immersion was the daytime boost that would just heat the upper part of the tank, if you needed it.


So now.... the bottom immersion doesn't come on at all? which is totally inefficient. and not giving you enough hot water


Have you discussed this with the landlord? If they don't know there's a problem, they cant fix it

 

[Denco1]

ok.. so is the bottom immersion not supplied at all now?

You still have storage heaters, or has all the off peak been disconnected?


Old system, the entire left hand side of the board was energised at the off peak rate time, turning on the storage heaters and the bottom immersion, heating the entire tank overnight.
2 sets of tails feeding the board?

The top immersion was the daytime boost that would just heat the upper part of the tank, if you needed it.


So now.... the bottom immersion doesn't come on at all? which is totally inefficient. and not giving you enough hot water


Have you discussed this with the landlord? If they don't know there's a problem, they cant fix it

The bottom immersion is still connected, as my first post says the spur is permanently live as it's now connected to the main live not the switched live. Yes I have a 5 terminal meter, albeit the 5th terminal isn't much use now...
Storage heaters can be ignored as they aren't present anymore.

My question was is E7 knowledge dying out, I already understand the setup that is now in place.

The install was yesterday, I only noticed the error after working hours so they've not had a chance to respond yet. I am curious what the electrician will say though.

 

[littlespark]

So if there's no storage heaters, is there any point having a 2 rate tariff, if its only the water heating that was coming off it? Very little benefit that i can see. (considering your day rate may be elevated to counteract the lower night rate)

What is the heating system now?

A word with the landlord may be enough. Just to have a timer fitted in line so the immersion comes on at night to correspond with the lower rate.



E7 was never really "taught"... It was just much more well known, and the supply companies actively pushed it as a product. E7 was the original, but you also got E10, Total Control Total Heating, (which was a scottish power thing, 3 tariffs) and a number of other products which all basically did the same thing.

Now, things like storage heaters are old technology, and the suppliers are too busy pushing smart meters.

 

[Denco1]

So if there's no storage heaters, is there any point having a 2 rate tariff, if its only the water heating that was coming off it? Very little benefit that i can see. (considering your day rate may be elevated to counteract the lower night rate)

What is the heating system now?

A word with the landlord may be enough. Just to have a timer fitted in line so the immersion comes on at night to correspond with the lower rate.



E7 was never really "taught"... It was just much more well known, and the supply companies actively pushed it as a product. E7 was the original, but you also got E10, Total Control Total Heating, (which was a scottish power thing, 3 tariffs) and a number of other products which all basically did the same thing.

Now, things like storage heaters are old technology, and the suppliers are too busy pushing smart meters.

I'm on Agile Octopus, and it was very economical as my largest energy consumption by far is from the immersion heater which was heated in the cheaper hours.

Heating is from standard electric radiators now, but the property is well insulated so I only need to use them infrequently during the cheaper slots.

Interesting that E7 was never really taught.

Funnily enough this reminds me of a time a meter reader visited because they'd been sent to investigate why no night readings were being generated. They had never heard of Agile Octopus, seems knowledge of any non standard products can be a little lacking!

 

[littlespark]

We were told about off peak, different tariffs etc, but they were more for meter engineers employed by the suppliers, rather than electricians.

We would pick up what we knew from being on the job, so to speak, and coming across different systems.


What you need to determine, as mentioned earlier, is working out if it’s ALL electric on cheap rate, or just the heating circuits.
It would be easy enough for an electrician to return and fit a timer like the Quartz I mentioned earlier.

I recently fitted a replacement from Secure that is Wi-Fi controlled

 

[Denco1]

We were told about off peak, different tariffs etc, but they were more for meter engineers employed by the suppliers, rather than electricians.

We would pick up what we knew from being on the job, so to speak, and coming across different systems.


What you need to determine, as mentioned earlier, is working out if it’s ALL electric on cheap rate, or just the heating circuits.
It would be easy enough for an electrician to return and fit a timer like the Quartz I mentioned earlier.

I recently fitted a replacement from Secure that is Wi-Fi controlled

Yes all circuits are now on the main live, nothing is on the switched live.

I agree on the timer suggestion.
I'd say if it's not broken, don't fix it applies here, but given they've broken it that's probably the cheapest fix.

 

[Risteard]

We were told about off peak, different tariffs etc, but they were more for meter engineers employed by the suppliers, rather than electricians.

We would pick up what we knew from being on the job, so to speak, and coming across different systems.


What you need to determine, as mentioned earlier, is working out if it’s ALL electric on cheap rate, or just the heating circuits.
It would be easy enough for an electrician to return and fit a timer like the Quartz I mentioned earlier.

I recently fitted a replacement from Secure that is Wi-Fi controlled

I have a Secure Controls immersion heater timer (E7+ I think the model is) set to come on on off-peak rates (with the additional WiFi module). Quite impressed with the product if I'm honest.