fire rated downlights

[TheoJones]

I'm fitting a number of GU10 down lights and am having a problem with the earth conductor - these units have a cheap nasty terminal block with all three connectors presented - L/N down to the usual moulded GU10 plug, no worries there.

The earth is riveted onto the side of the downlight itself with a super short length of the world's most brittle conductor...

I am using the line products JBs with Wago 224s for the wiring, which is a doddle for the live and neutral - but connecting these stubby little earth wires is a complete PITA and pulls the JB close to the fitting. I'm concerned that the normal movement of replacing bulbs will snap them.

The question - the downlights themselves are marked as double insulated, and the little installation leaflet in each box say they are double insulated (everyone reads those, right?)... but the damn things have an earth wire presented...

My "do it right" head is saying, double insulation label is wrong, in a fault condition, the metal parts of the downlight might become live, so cpc needs to be connected to the fitting... my "get it done" head is saying - take the label at face value, double insulated means what it says on the tin, chop the ambiguous earth cable, loop the cpc in the junction box and have a cleaner install from a mechanical point of view.

Thoughts please?

 

[stevethesparks]

I would say generally if there is an earth conductor present then it should be connected. Is it possible to replace the current brittle earth conductor with your own? An image or make / model No would be an advantage. Might be a good idea in the future to use a better quality type of fitting, cheap in price can be a false economy.

 

[Darkwood]

Contact the manufacturer their is a conflict here and i assume the wrong leaflet is supplied with the fittings ... are these cheap crap that may not be to BS standards ???

Equipment stamped with double insulation symbol can still have an earth terminal as a point to fit the earth wire to even though it may be redundant... you mention of an earth tail in the fitting rings some bells of concern to the compliance of the fitting if it is stamped as double insulated.

 

[TheoJones]

Yeah, I'll contact the manufacturer for a clear statement on the insulation. Not gonna take chances here.

It's the MiniSun range made by LSE in Salford - I am using the 17074 fire rated/IP65 units.

Apart from this concern, their enclosure is suprisingly well put together; solid, doesn't feel flimsy. The parts you would expect are there - intumescent barrier for the fire rating, the mains feed is sheathed in fire resistant material where it passes through the enclosure...

ironically, if I was using the supplied choc block and plastic hood, I'd be raving about them, I just find using choc block a collosal PITA now after trying Wago!

I had considered replacing the earth lead, but at that point, I'm burning enough time with a fiddly little task that it might be better to suck up my losses and buy better - but then, what guarantee is there that more expensive is better? The reputable brands seem to be getting their stuff churned out in the same factories as the knock off boys! *sigh*

 

[TheoJones]

Well, that was quick and clean - contacted LSE, and got a response straight back; the units do require an earth and are not double insulated, the leaflet is incorrect, and they will correct it straight away.

glad I asked now - although, should have just contacted them myself straight away. I guess I am so used to seeing manufacturers as distant and unhelpful, it felt easier to ask here...

anyhoo, thanks for the pointers folks. I have my answer.

 

[Darkwood]

Well, that was quick and clean - contacted LSE, and got a response straight back; the units do require an earth and are not double insulated, the leaflet is incorrect, and they will correct it straight away.

glad I asked now - although, should have just contacted them myself straight away. I guess I am so used to seeing manufacturers as distant and unhelpful, it felt easier to ask here...

anyone, thanks for the pointers folks. I have my answer.

Just to note you said the downlights themselves are marked with double insulation symbol if this is the case then its not just incorrect instructions the fittings should be recalled as you have a conflict which has safety issues, the instructions will probably get lost over time but the fitting itself will still maintain the wrong info - although this really isn't your concern as you can add this to the cert' as an observation and it does require earthing i would call the manufacturers up again and explain the conflict is on the product which is a safety concern to installers and users.

What is the brand and where did you get them ?

 

[DPG]

Agree with Darkwood - something not right here, as your original post says the units themselves were marked as DI. Daz

 

[TheoJones]

Good point, actually - yeah the units have a label with model number, CE marking, DI symbol and a batch number (along with the postcode of LSE, oddly). as I recall, you are not supposed to remove CE labels, so might just attack the label of the ones fitted with a bit of magic marker.

These are available in a couple of places - fleabay (where I got mine) and amazon.

I have pinged LSE back.

Got to make you think though - how much of the CE marking, stating BS standards etc actually means the product really complies as opposed to just being a box ticking exercise?