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Brit90

Hi,
I am working on a small island where the is no electric whatsoever only from what generators supply.

Is there anyone on here who is good with recommending makes of generators or companies that you think are reliable?
The island has to use diesel power to get the electric needed and I am having a hard time finding any information that I trust. I am from the UK and trust in what you guys say, because out where I am, its all about the money and not about the quality of the product.

I know you need to know loads etc, so the assumed load would be about 400 amps per phase.

If anyone has experience in this field, maybe I cam message you some finer details or post them on here.

Regards

TB90
 

johnboy6083

Band Member
Messages
2,946
Location
South east
FG Wilson generators are good, but the control systems for them can be a pain, and are unconventional. They switch everything back to the chassis. The panels are usually a birds nest too.
 
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Brit90

Thank you for the recommendations. I will have a look at them more closely this week.

The entire island is run on 3 phase, and already has 4 generators installed. We need to get a Synchroniser and install 2 more generators, and remove the 2 small ones. When I say small... they are about 3m long 1.5m wide.

I am trying to get a hold of all the loads and will work out whats needed. From speaking to the owner today, he estimated 1200 amps in total. Which seems rather high, but the houses they are powering are about 70m x 30m each. (2 of)

Thanks again for the help so far.

Tb90
 
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Engineer54

F.G Wilson generators are the by word in prime power generators, in my book!! Never had a bad one, and Never seen a birds nest in their control panels either.

Not saying there aren't other good Gen-Set manufacturers around, but you won't go far wrong with a F.G Wilson set up. Their after sales back-up and assistance is second to none too!!
 

timbobelfast

Electrician's Arms
Messages
684
Location
Belfast
FG Wilson must be doing something right if they are the sole choice for the US government.

They are the only sets I work with out here.

And I have also been in their manufacturing plant back in Larne and it is a state of the art set-up.
 

johnboy6083

Band Member
Messages
2,946
Location
South east
F.G Wilson generators are the by word in prime power generators, in my book!! Never had a bad one, and Never seen a birds nest in their control panels either.

Not saying there aren't other good Gen-Set manufacturers around, but you won't go far wrong with a F.G Wilson set up. Their after sales back-up and assistance is second to none too!!
We did have a lot of alterations done to the control system by the genny supplier, which may have caused the nest.
I do like the FG Wilson gennys, and i like the fact you can conrtol them with profi-bus or mod-bus, but unfortunately, we didnt use that option hence the alterations.
 
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Engineer54

We did have a lot of alterations done to the control system by the genny supplier, which may have caused the nest.
I do like the FG Wilson gennys, and i like the fact you can conrtol them with profi-bus or mod-bus, but unfortunately, we didnt use that option hence the alterations.

I think every prime power Genny installation i've ever done overseas or where it's been an MV installation, it's always gone to F.G Wilson. The only thing is, for stand-by Gen-sets they don't use Detroit Diesel engines, which are the dog's whatsits for stand-by Genny's. Being 2 stroke engines they can take up full load in one operation, generally from signal to start, to on load ...11 sec's.

Try that with a 4 stroke stand-by Genny, you'll be lucky to see the load taken up in 90 sec's...lol!!!
 
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Brit90

The generators here would be the primary form of electric, not as a backup generator.

I have been handed some of the load schedule now which is a mix of ACs, heaters and pumps on 3phase and other appliances like Fridges, TV's, washing machines all on 2 phase.

I am new to the generator scene, so this is my first project really with generators. I would like to know how would one go about finding the kVA needed, because of the 2 types of supply?

Here we already have 2x 160kVA generators but this isn't enough. The AC's alone are about 600Amps on 3 phase if all were running at the same time.

I've been using my books and internet to find out what I need to know, but I must admit, its been a few years since I have had to do calculations like this.

regards,

Brit90
 
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Guest111

Dont have too much experience with big gensets but what I do know is that they like to ba run at a load nearly equal to their output I E a 100 kva genset wouldn,t like being run at say 30 kva which is why they switch gennys in and out in power stations,you should try to match the demand to the supply,may be worth getting a fairly large one to replace say 2 smaller ones then as demand increases you can switch one of the smaller ones in to carry the extra load.As I say I,m no expert on these things but thats how I understand it,if you are bringing them on line together you have to synchronise them also,Tony is probably your man for this as he has worked on stuff like this before try dropping him a pm see what he suggests.
 
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Engineer54

Where abouts in the world are you talking about Brit 90, this is obviously not in the UK. Are we perhaps talking about the Middle East or Africa by any chance?? What are the present voltage and phase characteristics of the existing Genny set-up??
 
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Engineer54

The generators here would be the primary form of electric, not as a backup generator.

I have been handed some of the load schedule now which is a mix of ACs, heaters and pumps on 3phase and other appliances like Fridges, TV's, washing machines all on 2 phase.

I am new to the generator scene, so this is my first project really with generators. I would like to know how would one go about finding the kVA needed, because of the 2 types of supply?

Here we already have 2x 160kVA generators but this isn't enough. The AC's alone are about 600Amps on 3 phase if all were running at the same time.

I've been using my books and internet to find out what I need to know, but I must admit, its been a few years since I have had to do calculations like this.

regards,

Brit90
You not only need to find the Max KVA demand for your installation(s) you will need to know the demand factor over a typical 24 hr period. You need to avoid as much as possible, low power requirement periods, where the gen-set's are running at less than 50% of rated power for any lengths of time. In essence you need to not over size your gen-sets, but IMPORTANTLY don't under size either. Size your Gen-Sets to run at around 75 to 80% at your present max demand loading. This will leave you with 20 to 25% spare capacity should other future loads be brought in at a later date... Never run a Diesel or Gas engined generator under 70% of it's rating as a matter of course, unless you want serious maintenance costs to be incurred!! lol!!

If this is impossible, which is often the case with prime power Gen-set installations, you may find that you will need an automatic stepping load bank, to take up the load during off peak periods. (banks of resisters basically that can be brought in and taken out of circuit as required)

Have you not considered taking your requirements to the likes of F.G Wilson and having them advise you on suitable sized Gen-set's and installation requirement's etc?? Most Genny manufacturers will gladly give you a complete breakdown based obviously on there products.... Worth a shot, if you are not particularly experienced in Gen-Set installations....
 
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Brit90

Hello Engineer 54,
I am based in Thailand, and right now working on a tiny island which is basically just a few houses being built. The place will only be used for like 30 days in an entire year, when it would be full. The rest of the time it will be ticking over, with just a few basic staff needs. Out here its 220V/50hz but we are using 3 phase on all heavy items, AC, Heating, Pumps.

I see many people recommend FG Wilson, so I think I will contact them.

Phil D - who is Tony? What is his username on here or is it Tony?

The power figures are huge, because of the AC's. One building is 600Amps and the other 300Amps. These are using Toshiba units. The specs show the ratings of the units as MCA 62A and MOCP 80A. But the confusing part for me, will be the actual cassettes that are installed throughout the building as they show a MCA of 1Amp but a MOCP 15Amps... and we are talking about 60+ units of these installed. So I don't know how much "power" these will draw, from 60amps to 900amps (if I go with the MOCP)

For me, this is all rather new, but we are keeping as much as we can at 3 phase. So far, a total current of over 2500Amps is required.
 
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Engineer54

Observations on your last post...


1/. You don't seem to be 100% sure of your actual power requirement to size these generators at the moment. How have you calculated or reached a value of 2500A?? (I can run a fully air conditioned smallish hospital on that type of requirement...lol!!!) Have you clamped to check your actual current draw?? Even if you don't have an amp clamp capable of reading the the possible full current, you can sub-divide and add the readings to give you a clearer picture... What are the present generators showing on the integral amp meter(s)??

2/. When you say, will be just ticking over with a few staff needs, what do you mean by this?? You cannot have say a 800 KVA or larger generator ticking over providing a minuscule load for 11 months of the year, so you will need to supply a suitably rated twin gen-set (you will need to cycle between two gen-sets to cover maintenance/duty restrictions/ breakdowns etc etc) which will cater purely for these few staff needs. Will the two buildings still require large power requirement for the remainder of the year?? If not, but still require some power but at much lower levels, then you are definitely going to need load banks. That, or increase the size of the Staff's twin gen-set, to also run these two buildings during the 11 months tick over period.

3/. Not sure what you mean by 220V/50Hz is that 3 phase voltage or single phase voltage?? Surely you wouldn't need 2 phases (first post) unless this is a Yankee set-up, with a 3 wire single phase transformer supplying 115/120V-220V to the staff area...

Perhaps it would be helpful to let us know what sort of installation this is?? Seems awfully strange that whatever it is, only runs for 30 days out of a year??

Tony is a retired industrial Engineer, and ''IS'' his user name. But he won't be able to help any more than i can, without a lot more information from you....
 
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Brit90

Hello,
Maybe I wasn't clear enough of things so I will try and explain.

1) The is an island, which is got several buildings on it right now and some more being built. I would class these buildings as huge, because they are 70m x 30m and probably 20m tall.

The AC in one building, has been priced up using Toshiba units. Each CU outside is rated at MCA 62A and MOCP 80A there are 9 of these units. The cassettes are rated at MCA 1A and MOCP 15A - there are 50 of these.

We then have about 15 or so 3phase water heaters, 3 phase water pumps, plus then all the single phase items such as 10 fridges, and other appliances.

The second building, is of the same size but using about 70% of the above specs.

I hope to load the current generators up over the next week, to get a load on the current built houses. Right now there are no Sync Switches, so they change between a 120kVA, 130kVA and have 2 160kVA (from what I have been told, but there are no specs available at hand).


2) So the idea of having a smaller generator to run essentials while people are on the island is what is needed, and when his friends come over, they need enough power to run everything. The owner, visits the island maybe once a month for a couple of days then he is gone. But over periods like Xmas and such, he will invite people over and that would be the only time that maximum demand is needed.

The 2 buildings will need to be run and tested all the time, to make sure things are working and to "lube" the system so things are working all the time, rather than not using it for 6 months then finding it stopped working. So yes, they will be switching gens etc.

3) Sorry about the confusion, Here in Thailand, its - 400V/50hZ 3 phase - 220V/50hZ 1 phase - pretty much like Europe.

It literally is a persons "fun island". I originally got involved to fix the problems they have already which is mainly what I do. Earthing, making things safe and just general electrics plus my Lighting ideas/products.

Maybe I will try and convince them to fly you out here and sort out there needs, as my knowledge on this is not too much as you can tell.

regards

B90
 
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Engineer54

Unfortunately i have my own project to look after over here, otherwise i may well have been interested in a short but intensive trip to Thailand ...lol!!!

You can always PM Tony to see if he is interested, he'll certainly be able to sort out your loadings and overall requirements for your project. Plus he's single, so a trip to Thailand is a bonus in itself!! lol!!!

Failing that, contact FG Wilson or other respected generator manufacturer and ask for their rates to send a survey Engineer to assess your requirements and to give you alternative schemes and costings etc....

As it stands, apart from what i've already advised, it is going to be almost impossible to accurately help you to a satisfactory degree in assessing your overall power requirements and advising on generator schemes over the internet.
You really do need someone physically on site, to assess first hand your present installations and to give qualified advise on how to improve/modify them, for your intended upgrade system needs....
 
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Brit90

Thank you very much for your advice and assistance in this matter.
I really do appreciate it.

Regards,

B90
 
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Brit90

I have sent 4 messages now to FG Wilson with 0 replies, using their Online Contact form...

Does anyone have a direct email to them? Also their partners here in Thailand have not responded either.

regards,
 
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Engineer54

Here's a couple of Telephone numbers, I'm sure you should get an answer from one of these. Ask for there email address during the call/fax as they don't seem to be advertising on there web sites, so can only email via there web enquiry form.

If you get no luck with them, (which i find strange in the present economic climate) there are plenty of other generator supply companies that can help you...



Sales & Marketing Address
Manufacturing Centre
FG Wilson Ltd
1 Millennium Way
Springvale Business Park
BELFAST
Co. Antrim
N. Ireland
BT12 7AL
Tel. +44 (0) 28 9049 5000
Fax. +44 (0) 28 2826 1111
FG Wilson Ltd
Old Glenarm Road
Larne
Co. Antrim
N. Ireland
BT40 1EJ
Tel. +44 (0) 28 2826 1000
Fax. +44 (0) 28 2826 1111
 

UKMeterman

Electrician's Arms
Messages
810
Hi,
If it is in Thailand have you considered some PV to help reduce the daytime demand even further?
 
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