Grid switches

[MDJ]

I just cannot see a problem having a single socket below the worktop and the fuse in the plug top TBH, whats all the fuss about with doing this then? pretty normal practise in 99.999999999% of the kitchens in this country

 

[MDJ]

Monkey read your regs a 20a dp switch leading to a spur is not following the bible it has to be fused down to 13a either with a 13a sf or a 20a grid and 13a fuse so want it or not you still have fuses above the work top so seems crazy to have a second fuse under the work top I have a funny feeling we may see a more definite direction of this in the regs soon to clarify it better as to what is expected until then we do what we feel is right

I am totally confused by all of this, what seems to be the argument here is there is a 20 amp double pole switch in a grid feeding a socket below the worktop feeding lets say a dishwasher, inbetween this link a 20 amp switch added above the worktop as well? some think this switch between the socket and grid needs to be a 13 amp spur? or that a 13 amp fuse added in the grid? or that the plug top is removed and a spur added below the unit as well, what a bloody mess, why not add a switch next to the dist board, next to the grid and in the lounge as well so we can have 5 means of isolation and fuses and not one LMAO. regs huh, sometimes common sence and good practice is the way to do things, just how many 13 amp switches do we need here, whats wrong with having the grid on it's own 20 amp ring main and legs out to the socket or spur below the unit only and no Switch above the unit? if there is a requirement to have a switch above the unit then do not have the grid as well, too many switches and too messy IMO.

 

[monkeyelectric]

When i mean grid switches i just mean so say you have a dishwasher and a washing machine under one counter, then have a gridplate with a 20a dp switch module for each so 2 in total in a 1G plate and then under another counter a fridge and a freezer seperate then the same again 2 switches in a 1G plate one for each socket, all spurred off the ring, keeps it very neat

 

[monkeyelectric]

Like this 2 Gang White Plate c/w Grid Frame and these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GUG20DPDWW.html

 

[Toonlad]

you have to take each kitchen on its own merit and design.

you can use a switched spur above counter and flex outlet, appliance protected by fuse. Esentially used for intergrated appliances

You can use a grid switch to isolate single unswitched socket. moulded plug protects appliance.esentially used on non intergrated appliances. Or place socket in adjacent unit and feed plug through side of cabinet.

You can run a grid switch on on seperate circuit. 20A radial

you can run a grid switch on the kitchen ring and use the grid with fuse holders.

Like i said its all down to customers need and ease of access for safe isolation. As a further note to a post above about Barretts spec, i know what he means, persimmons (charles church), wimpey taylor, bellway, etc etc all use different types above as standard, so if you get one of there homes you will see these.

I hope this simplifies things here, its all in the design.

cheers

 

[richy3333]

Monkey read your regs a 20a dp switch leading to a spur is not following the bible it has to be fused down to 13a either with a 13a sf or a 20a grid and 13a fuse so want it or not you still have fuses above the work top so seems crazy to have a second fuse under the work top I have a funny feeling we may see a more definite direction of this in the regs soon to clarify it better as to what is expected until then we do what we feel is right

Please can you quote the specific Reg so we can all take a look?

 

[electric will]

You can't have a fused spur above the work top and a socket out let below for say a washing machine, where's your discrimination between fuses, it has to be a 20amp DP switch.

 

[Engineer54]

Its NOT rubbish!! It happened end of!

It is Rubbish, absolute rubbish!! If you as an electrician were so easily fobbed off with that kind of crap, then more fool you!!

This has come up on here so many times now. Let's get this one straight once and for all!! The only reason manufactures fit a plug to appliances up to a certain rating, is to do with EU regulations, in that manufacturers must fit a plug to appliances that is suitable for the country of final destination. It has nothing to do with any end user warranty!!

A manufacturer cannot and will not invalidate ANY appliance warranty, if the appliance is connected to the supply by a means that is recognised as compliant by BS7671, or indeed any other countries compliant methods (the same models are available throughout the EU and the plug tops won't incorporate a fuse!!).

What your talking about, are these warranty service agents that some manufacturers use, that think they are above commercial/consumer law. They often try it on with the general public but, i can assure you they have no legal footing to do so., It's normally based on the fact that the service engineer sent round to sort out a problem with an appliance, can't be arsed with disconnecting say a FCU or CCU. So they try the warranty invalidation angle/stance!! Further, i've personally never seen a manufacturers warranty that stipulates removal of a plug top will invalidate said warranty. If it did, it would contravein UK consumers rights, and could be totally ignored anyway!! lol!! Maybe different if the end connection was DIY hack job, and left in a dangerous condition. Even then, once restored to a compliant connection the warranty would continue!!!

There was a member here who's wife is a solicitor, and confirmed that manufacturers have no grounds to invalidate any appliance warranty purely on the grounds of the removal of a moulded (or otherwise) plug top. The appliance has to be fit for purpose, so any component that fails (ie element, switch, pipe, pump etc) during any warranty period issued by a manufacturer must be rectified, or replaced....

 

[monkeyelectric]

It is Rubbish, absolute rubbish!! If you as an electrician were so easily fobbed off with that kind of crap, then more fool you!!

This has come up on here so many times now. Let's get this one straight once and for all!! The only reason manufactures fit a plug to appliances up to a certain rating, is to do with EU regulations, in that manufacturers must fit a plug to appliances that is suitable for the country of final destination. It has nothing to do with any end user warranty!!

A manufacturer cannot and will not invalidate ANY appliance warranty, if the appliance is connected to the supply by a means that is recognised as compliant by BS7671, or indeed any other countries compliant methods (the same models are available throughout the EU and the plug tops won't incorporate a fuse!!).

What your talking about, are these warranty service agents that some manufacturers use, that think they are above commercial/consumer law. They often try it on with the general public but, i can assure you they have no legal footing to do so., It's normally based on the fact that the service engineer sent round to sort out a problem with an appliance, can't be arsed with disconnecting say a FCU or CCU. So they try the warranty invalidation angle/stance!! Further, i've personally never seen a manufacturers warranty that stipulates removal of a plug top will invalidate said warranty. If it did, it would contravein UK consumers rights, and could be totally ignored anyway!! lol!! Maybe different if the end connection was DIY hack job, and left in a dangerous condition. Even then, once restored to a compliant connection the warranty would continue!!!

There was a member here who's wife is a solicitor, and confirmed that manufacturers have no grounds to invalidate any appliance warranty purely on the grounds of the removal of a moulded (or otherwise) plug top. The appliance has to be fit for purpose, so any component that fails (ie element, switch, pipe, pump etc) during any warranty period issued by a manufacturer must be rectified, or replaced....

It wasn't my boiler to get fobbed off with, i only heard after the fact and i've never chopped a plug top off since, i've never looked into the legal side of the warranties these manufacturers offer to see if chopping a plug off will invalidate said warranty but i'd just rather not do it anyway for reasons i put in previous posts, everyone has there own way of doing things and i shall keep doing things my way and if the need comes one day to lop off a moulded plug top i will now do so safe in the knowledge you said it was ok and it WILL NOT invalidate any warranty manufacturers or otherwise

 

[Engineer54]

It wasn't my boiler to get fobbed off with, i only heard after the fact and i've never chopped a plug top off since, i've never looked into the legal side of the warranties these manufacturers offer to see if chopping a plug off will invalidate said warranty but i'd just rather not do it anyway for reasons i put in previous posts, everyone has there own way of doing things and i shall keep doing things my way and if the need comes one day to lop off a moulded plug top i will now do so safe in the knowledge you said it was ok and it WILL NOT invalidate any warranty manufacturers or otherwise

It's not me saying it, it's legally the UK's consumer rights legislation etc, that is doing that!! I'm just informing you that your statement on removing a plug top from an appliance and connecting that appliance via a complying means of connection, to the mains supply (FCU/CCU etc) invalidates a warranty is Wrong!!

Again, don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself either via a solicitor or a consumer group/agency!!...