How far away would you make Next Inspection?

[keith42]

Hello everyone, just wondering what period you would allow to Next Inspection on the installation Certificate, in a case where you've fitted a new CU and recommended that a new earth rod is fitted + earth bond to an oil tank? Thanks.

 

[Octopus]

Its down to you!

Only you know the "state" of the installation.

Could be anything between 1 year and 10 years.

 

[keith42]

Its down to you!

Only you know the "state" of the installation.

Could be anything between 1 year and 10 years.

Well in the case where everything is okay, it's a new CU that's tested fine, but those items need doing.

 

[Hawk]

When does an electrical installation condition report need to be carried out?

It is recommended that an electrical installation condition report is carried out at the following times:

for tenanted properties, every 5 years or at each change of occupancy, whichever is sooner. At least every 10 years for an owner-occupied home and at least every 5 years for a business

 

[Pete999]

Well in the case where everything is okay, it's a new CU that's tested fine, but those items need doing.

what items ?

 

[keith42]

what items ?

A new earth rod and oil tank bond.

 

[Octopus]

A new earth rod and oil tank bond.

whats wrong with the current rod? and the earth bond to the oil tank should be mandated at the time of the CU change

 

[Pete999]

A new earth rod and oil tank bond.

Oh right sorry misread your thread, should you not have bonded the oil tank and fitted a new rod at the time of the CU change, it seems an important thing to just recommend.

 

[Pete999]

Oh right sorry misread your thread, should you not have bonded the oil tank and fitted a new rod at the time of the CU change, it seems an important thing to just recommend.

Looks like you may have left yourself open to some criticism by not doing these jobs at the time you changed the CU as Murdoch mentioned

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Hello everyone, just wondering what period you would allow to Next Inspection on the installation Certificate, in a case where you've fitted a new CU and recommended that a new earth rod is fitted + earth bond to an oil tank? Thanks.

My guess is that you have either C1 or C2 (or both) coded this job. so you could give it the maximum recommended time as per the table in GN3, but consider your test results when making that decision. The EICR is worthless whatever you put on it, because it says, i/we recommend that this installation is re inspected in however many months or years subject to the items requiring remedial action are sorted out, or words to that effect. I can't be bothered to dig GN3 out, so have a look on the EICR form for exact wording.

Cheers............Howard

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Ignore the last crap, i have just re read your post. The earthing arrangement and bonding should have been sorted BEFORE you put the new CU in.

Cheers...............Howard

 

[Octopus]

Ignore the last crap, i have just re read your post. The earthing arrangement and bonding should have been sorted BEFORE you put the new CU in.

Cheers...............Howard

I think this should agreed with the client to be included as part of the CU change, then situations like this would be avoided.

 

[keith42]

whats wrong with the current rod? and the earth bond to the oil tank should be mandated at the time of the CU change

Oh right sorry misread your thread, should you not have bonded the oil tank and fitted a new rod at the time of the CU change, it seems an important thing to just recommend.

The job was just to replace the old CU. The existing earth was to Neutral, it's there but high resistance. The oil tank/boiler went in in 2004/5.

So should it not have been certificated, strictly speaking? Or is it okay with an early Next Inspection?

I am the customer, btw.

 

[trev]

The job was just to replace the old CU. The existing earth was to Neutral, it's there but high resistance. The oil tank/boiler went in in 2004/5.

So should it not have been certificated, strictly speaking? Or is it okay with an early Next Inspection?

I am the customer, btw.

By that do you mean it was/is a TN-C-S system? If the impedance is out of range it should be notified to the DNO as it is their responsibility to maintain any earthing facility they supplu
Any CU change involves testing the circuits fed from it and certifying the work carried out.
I find your last sentence very worrying.

 

[Octopus]

The job was just to replace the old CU. The existing earth was to Neutral, it's there but high resistance. The oil tank/boiler went in in 2004/5.

So should it not have been certificated, strictly speaking? Or is it okay with an early Next Inspection?

I am the customer, btw.

Which country do you live in? what paperwork has the spark given you? and have you paid the spark?

 

[keith42]

By that do you mean it was/is a TN-C-S system? If the impedance is out of range it should be notified to the DNO as it is their responsibility to maintain any earthing facility they supplu
Any CU change involves testing the circuits fed from it and certifying the work carried out.
I find your last sentence very worrying.

Apparently we're a long way from the transformer. Why are you worried? I called in a professional, he changed the CU, tested everything, and gave me that advice. I just wanted to understand why he only gave 6 months to the next inspection, because some tensions arose afterwards. But maybe this is why, as I half suspected, but I wanted to be sure it wasn't vindictive.

 

[keith42]

Which country do you live in? what paperwork has the spark given you? and have you paid the spark?

I'm in the UK. He's given me a Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate, and yes I've paid him.

 

[trev]

Apparently we're a long way from the transformer. Why are you worried? I called in a professional, he changed the CU, tested everything, and gave me that advice. I just wanted to understand why he only gave 6 months to the next inspection, because some tensions arose afterwards. But maybe this is why, as I half suspected, but I wanted to be sure it wasn't vindictive.

I'm worried because of your posts mate, it sounds as if someone has not done their job properly. Obviously I can only speak for myself but I'd have included bonding of the tank and installing the earth rod in the price if it was my professional opinion that they were needed. We could then have decided between ourselves whether you wanted them. Had you refused the additional work I'd have walked away.
Did he give you a certificate for the new CU?
There could be any number of reasons why he's stipulated a 6 month retest period, is there any chance you could post up a copy of the installation certificate and any EICR he carried out beforehand?

 

[Pete999]

I doubt very much that your Electrician is being vindictive, a little inexperienced maybe, but that is an assumption as I/we don't know him/her, so thats only my opinion

 

[Octopus]

I'm in the UK. He's given me a Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate, and yes I've paid him.

England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - this is important.

 

[Octopus]

Apparently we're a long way from the transformer. Why are you worried? I called in a professional, he changed the CU, tested everything, and gave me that advice. I just wanted to understand why he only gave 6 months to the next inspection, because some tensions arose afterwards. But maybe this is why, as I half suspected, but I wanted to be sure it wasn't vindictive.

You would only give 6 months if the test results are really poor. Can you give us an indication of the insulation resistance readings? Also how long was he onsite and how much did you pay? All sounds a bit fishy to me.

 

[keith42]

I'm worried because of your posts mate, it sounds as if someone has not done their job properly. Obviously I can only speak for myself but I'd have included bonding of the tank and installing the earth rod in the price if it was my professional opinion that they were needed. We could then have decided between ourselves whether you wanted them. Had you refused the additional work I'd have walked away.
Did he give you a certificate for the new CU?
There could be any number of reasons why he's stipulated a 6 month retest period, is there any chance you could post up a copy of the installation certificate and any EICR he carried out beforehand?

I can't see a way of posting or pm-ing the certificate without revealing his name, which I don't want to do. It's kind of you to offer to take a look, let me know if there's a way.

To be fair he did flag up the earthing issues before he started, but I think he didn't want to appear like he was trying to get more work out of me.

So do you think the 6-month thing was a compromise?

 

[keith42]

England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - this is important.

Ah, England.

 

[Octopus]

Ah, England.

A cu change falls under Part P of the building regs - have you received a notification? As you ducked my question about the time and costs I'm guessing this was a cheap job!

 

[Pete999]

Or, dare I say it a S.E.C.T or Electrical Trainee

 

[keith42]

You would only give 6 months if the test results are really poor. Can you give us an indication of the insulation resistance readings? Also how long was he onsite and how much did you pay? All sounds a bit fishy to me.

Let me try to give you the figures....
External earth fault loop impedance = 1.47 Ohm
Means of earthing section = all N/A
Schedule if Items Inspected = all ticked
Distribution board details...continuity Ohms All Circuits R1+R2: 0.46, 0.96, 1.21, 0.56, 0.71, 1.21
Insulation Resistance all N/A or 999

He was here about 2 hours, I paid £230 all in.

Is there anything else I can tell you?

 

[trev]

I fail to see how the means of earthing can be N/A
Same with IR results. If there's a circuit there he has to have a result for it.
2 hours is very quick for a CU change and a full test

 

[keith42]

A cu change falls under Part P of the building regs - have you received a notification? As you ducked my question about the time and costs I'm guessing this was a cheap job!

Hey I haven't ducked anything!! At least, not yet

No I haven't received a notification. It took me 4 chases to get the certificate, I had to get a bit assertive.

 

[Pete999]

£230:00 and 2 hours and numerous chases to get a cert and no notification, sounds like a cash in hand rip off to me, leaving the Earth Rod and Bonding, that's a bit like changing a CU without checking the gas and water earthing conductors are installed correctly.

 

[davesparks]

This sounds very fishy, one of the means of earthing boxes must be ticked, you've got an earth fault loop impedance so therefore must have an earth connection of some kind.

With an earth loop impedance of 1.47 ohm you either have an earth rod in very good condition or a electricity board supplied earth in poor condition.

Based on what you have posted here I would say your electrician has not complied with the current wiring regulations. I'd also advise you engage the services of a reputable electrician to look at your installation and advise you about it. Then go to trading standards and get something done about the original guy.

 

[Octopus]

After 2 hours often I'm just in the process of putting the new board on the wall!

 

[keith42]

Or, dare I say it a S.E.C.T or Electrical Trainee

Hmm...5 Week Wonder? What's a S.E.C.T.?

He's a young man from ratedpeople.com. He has a lot of 5* ratings and references. His van is smart and branded and so is some of his equipment. He seemed fine as far as I could tell, until I found he'd fitted the standard set of mcb's with 32A on the rings when I'd told him I have spurs and wanted 16A. Then he told me they had to be 32A, and then that a spur is fine on 32A but I have multiple sockets on a spur not 1 or one double or fused triple. So we fell out a bit over that, then when the certificate kept not arriving we fell out some more...

Then I saw 6 months on the Next Inspection, and just wondered what that was about.

 

[trev]

Hmm...5 Week Wonder? What's a S.E.C.T.?

He's a young man from ratedpeople.com. He has a lot of 5* ratings and references. His van is smart and branded and so is some of his equipment. He seemed fine as far as I could tell, until I found he'd fitted the standard set of mcb's with 32A on the rings when I'd told him I have spurs and wanted 16A. Then he told me they had to be 32A, and then that a spur is fine on 32A but I have multiple sockets on a spur not 1 or one double or fused triple. So we fell out a bit over that, then when the certificate kept not arriving we fell out some more...

Then I saw 6 months on the Next Inspection, and just wondered what that was about.

Oh deary deary me.
Post up your rough location mate. One of us will be near you and will come and give you proper advice.

 

[trev]

I could have picked more holes in that but it's not really worth it tbh

 

[Octopus]

Is he a member of Elecsa, Napit, NICEIC, Stroma, BSI?

 

[keith42]

Oh deary deary me.
Post up your rough location mate. One of us will be near you and will come and give you proper advice.

I have to go and eat. Thanks SO much everyone you've been a great help. I have to sort out the oil tank bonding and earth then get someone else in, clearly. I'm in LE143QG if anyone is near.

Thanks again

 

[Pete999]

Hmm...5 Week Wonder? What's a S.E.C.T.?

He's a young man from ratedpeople.com. He has a lot of 5* ratings and references. His van is smart and branded and so is some of his equipment. He seemed fine as far as I could tell, until I found he'd fitted the standard set of mcb's with 32A on the rings when I'd told him I have spurs and wanted 16A. Then he told me they had to be 32A, and then that a spur is fine on 32A but I have multiple sockets on a spur not 1 or one double or fused triple. So we fell out a bit over that, then when the certificate kept not arriving we fell out some more...

Then I saw 6 months on the Next Inspection, and just wondered what that was about.

S.E.C.T. Short Electrical Course Trainee

 

[davesparks]

One more thing, it is unlikely to be the oil tank that needs bonding, rather the copper oil pipe as it enters you property.

 

[Pete999]

It depends on what you describe as a spur, you can spur off of a RFC 32a, there are several ways to do it though. Do you mean radials, sorry but the more this thread carries on the more dubious it sounds

 

[HandySparks]

It depends on what you describe as a spur, you can spur off of a RFC 32a, there are several ways to do it though. Do you mean radials, sorry but the more this thread carries on the more dubious it sounds

I suspect that the OP is more clued up than his electrician in some respects; see his post No. 32. Although he may be being a bit over cautious here; a 20A MCB would likely do the job, depending on cable size and installation method.

 

[Octopus]

I suspect that the OP is more clued up than his electrician in some respects; see his post No. 32. Although he may be being a bit over cautious here; a 20A MCB would likely do the job, depending on cable size and installation method.

and just 2 hours to do a change wouldn't allow much time to go round to each socket and do tests which would probably indicate a spur off a spur either!

 

[Marvo]

I am the customer, btw.

Bit late I know but moved to DIY. I thought you were the sparky when I saw the first posts.