installing 1.5 armoured cable, need termination advice please

[reddwarf4ever]

I am replacing a 1.5 internal cable that was run temporarily to give a constant on feed to,my new boiler, as the previous one didn't require this. Unfortunately the only route this could take was from a bedroom ceiling through the floor to the boiler downstairs.

I intend running a 1.5 armoured cable from the loft area, picking up the existing 1.5 cable which comes from the airing cupboard and central heating control /pump. this will then exit the loft, be fixed to the outside wall and enter lower down into the kitchen above the kitchen cupboards and pick up the cable from the boiler....

I will be picking up existing cable so will not be disturbing connections at each end.

I have the 3 core armoured cable and now need to properly connect it to the existing house 1.5 twin and earth...

I believe this is https://www.amazon.co.uk/20mm-Small...007IU33OU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_pl_foot_top?ie=UTF8
part of what I need. but not sure if to use a metal or plastic internal surface box....I see the armoured cable metal sheath needs earthing, not sure how to connect the existing earth to the either tag, is this with a bolt and nut ? if I use a metal box and it is earthed independently, would this be sufficient , as the armoured cable sheath would earth through its connection to the metal box.

sorry for all the questions, tried to put this in the DIY forum, but it wouldn't let me post there ???

 

[Octopus]

Do you not need 4 or 5 core cable?

You need permission to get into DIY - I'll flag this to the mods

 

[Pete999]

hy on earth are you bothering doing this yourself? from your profile it looks like you have very little experience with electrical installation work, with all due respect get a local electrician in to do this work, not sure if it will be notifiable with the LABC but a sparky will install test and notify the LABC safer for you and yours in the long run.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I've had some pretty bad runs in the past getting cables to a boiler for pump over run etc. A couple of times the only viable option due to flat roofs, laminate flooring, internal decoration, customer doesn't want trunking, chasing etc has been from the airing cupboard across the loft then external down to the boiler position. If this is your only option then armoured cable wouldn't be one of my choices. I would use black Conduit and a suitable cable with enough cores.

 

[Darkwood]

Do you not need 4 or 5 core cable?

You need permission to get into DIY - I'll flag this to the mods

Cheers for the heads up, we are at the moment giving the DIY section a break and letting them run in the normal forum, the initial reason for the section was to stop DIYers been ganged up on, we could choose which members to admit to give advice, as the forum is now a very different place and the key offenders no longer frequent the forum we are seeing how leaving DIY in the main section goes, of course we will still update the OP's tag as DIY when Admin is next online. We haven't used the DIY section for quite a few weeks now and we are seeing the respect and advice given is good thus far.

The other issue with DIY is once moved over to that section then some members who had posted while the thread waited to be relocated and didn't have access were no longer able to follow the thread or reply.

 

[reddwarf4ever]

I've had some pretty bad runs in the past getting cables to a boiler for pump over run etc. A couple of times the only viable option due to flat roofs, laminate flooring, internal decoration, customer doesn't want trunking, chasing etc has been from the airing cupboard across the loft then external down to the boiler position. If this is your only option then armoured cable wouldn't be one of my choices. I would use black Conduit and a suitable cable with enough cores.

Hi did consider this option, but was advised ( rightly or wrongly that armoured was the best way ) I have bought the cable already 10m and have ordered the gland kit, just wondered if plastic or metal JB best internally...and my earthing question...

 

[reddwarf4ever]

Its 3 core

Do you not need 4 or 5 core cable?

You need permission to get into DIY - I'll flag this to the mods

its 3 core...

 

[Leesparkykent]

Its 3 core

its 3 core...

Take it back. Get a length or two of conduit, a coupler, 2x stop end boxes, 4x M4 screws, 2x lids, 2x gaskets, saddles and a pot of cement/glue and do the job properly. SWA has got to be one of the roughest ways to carry out this job and your more than likely end up with two unnecessary joints that you wouldn't have if you used another method like the one I've mentioned.

 

[davesparks]

I've had some pretty bad runs in the past getting cables to a boiler for pump over run etc. A couple of times the only viable option due to flat roofs, laminate flooring, internal decoration, customer doesn't want trunking, chasing etc has been from the airing cupboard across the loft then external down to the boiler position. If this is your only option then armoured cable wouldn't be one of my choices. I would use black Conduit and a suitable cable with enough cores.

I have such a good relationship with the plumbing company that I do boilers for that when I'm faced with such a situation I can stamp my feet and insist that they move the pump next to the boiler to solve the issue. And they actually do it as they know if I say it's not possible, it's really not possible

 

[reddwarf4ever]

Thanks everyone for all the advice, but sticking with Rmoured cable, as already bought and can't return, just need some advice to work with what I have, as per my original post...

 

[Leesparkykent]

Thanks everyone for all the advice, but sticking with Rmoured cable, as already bought and can't return, just need some advice to work with what I have, as per my original post...

are you terminating the armoured in to an adaptable box outside?

 

[Leesparkykent]

I have such a good relationship with the plumbing company that I do boilers for that when I'm faced with such a situation I can stamp my feet and insist that they move the pump next to the boiler to solve the issue. And they actually do it as they know if I say it's not possible, it's really not possible

unfortunately I'm not so lucky with some of the ones I do them for. Its a bit silly as it costs them more 2 have me there all day instead of a few hours when it wouldn't take long to move the pump when they have the system drained down. sometimes when the programmer is near the boiler I've managed to persuade the customer for me to move it to the airing cupboard which I know isn't ideal but it gives me the extra cores I need for the boiler lol.

 

[reddwarf4ever]

are you terminating the armoured in to an adaptable box outside?

No, the armoured cable is to be joined in the loft to existing 1.5 twin & earth then exits the loft through a drilled hole to the outside wall, then drops down to the kitchen, which houses the boiler...then enters the house via another drilled hole ( with an external drip loop ) then joins the existing 1.5 twin & earth cable which runs to the boiler.....so I am not disturbing the cable connections at either end, just interrupting the original cable which runs down an internal wall and replacing with armoured, which will run down the external wall.....with cable clips to secure it...

Wanted to know best junction box for loft space / kitchen....plastic or metal, special purpose box or just a housing with connectors...will use gland kit each end

thanks

 

[Octopus]

Its 3 core

its 3 core...

I very much doubt that. You probably need 4 cord to do it properly

 

[reddwarf4ever]

I very much doubt that. You probably need 4 cord to do it properly

The existing run on, permanent feed cable for the boiler, is 1.5 twin & earth...

 

[davesparks]

I very much doubt that. You probably need 4 cord to do it properly

Why? He's had a standard boiler replaced by a pump overrun boiler, so the extra cable required will only be two cores.

 

[Leesparkykent]

The existing run on, permanent feed cable for the boiler, is 1.5 twin & earth...

A plastic adaptable box either end with earthing nuts replacing the locknuts will be slightly easier IMO if your hell-bent on using the armoured.

 

[davesparks]

No, the armoured cable is to be joined in the loft to existing 1.5 twin & earth then exits the loft through a drilled hole to the outside wall, then drops down to the kitchen, which houses the boiler...then enters the house via another drilled hole ( with an external drip loop ) then joins the existing 1.5 twin & earth cable which runs to the boiler.....so I am not disturbing the cable connections at either end, just interrupting the original cable which runs down an internal wall and replacing with armoured, which will run down the external wall.....with cable clips to secure it...

Wanted to know best junction box for loft space / kitchen....plastic or metal, special purpose box or just a housing with connectors...will use gland kit each end

thanks

Metal for SWA, I'd probably use a besa box.
But then I would also do the job properly including complying with the wiring regulations and testing the job.
But I guess there's no real need to worry about that, it's not like electricity will kill you within a fraction of a second if you make a simple mistake is it?

 

[Octopus]

Why? He's had a standard boiler replaced by a pump overrun boiler, so the extra cable required will only be two cores.

I was working on the basis of Pl, sl, n, and earth !

 

[Richard Burns]

Just choose an electrical enclosure that has enough room to join the cables and to fit the gland nut securely it will also need to be able to seal the entry of a flat cable.
An earthing nut (piranha nut) will make earthing the armour easier but will still need a ring crimp on the earth tail to affix it to the nut.
If you were to clean the coating off the contact area of a metal enclosure and fix an earth connection from the enclosure to the circuit earth then this would also be acceptable, however it can be difficult to get a good clean contact on the metal box (though piranha nuts also have cutting teeth on one face to assist with this.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Take it back. Get a length or two of conduit, a coupler, 2x stop end boxes, 4x M4 screws, 2x lids, 2x gaskets, saddles and a pot of cement/glue and do the job properly. SWA has got to be one of the roughest ways to carry out this job and your more than likely end up with two unnecessary joints that you wouldn't have if you used another method like the one I've mentioned.

Cant see any reason why SWA would be 'rough'. If the joints are done properly and are internal then I cant see any reason why conduit would be preferable.

 

[reddwarf4ever]

Just choose an electrical enclosure that has enough room to join the cables and to fit the gland nut securely it will also need to be able to seal the entry of a flat cable.
An earthing nut (piranha nut) will make earthing the armour easier but will still need a ring crimp on the earth tail to affix it to the nut.
If you were to clean the coating off the contact area of a metal enclosure and fix an earth connection from the enclosure to the circuit earth then this would also be acceptable, however it can be difficult to get a good clean contact on the metal box (though piranha nuts also have cutting teeth on one face to assist with this.

thanks, will go,with the earth nut.....is it ok then to use a connecting strip to join the cables in the enclosure, a 30 amp strip maybe.....manynthanks for the advice

 

[Octopus]

thanks, will go,with the earth nut.....is it ok then to use a connecting strip to join the cables in the enclosure, a 30 amp strip maybe.....manynthanks for the advice

So where exactly is the switched live then?

 

[reddwarf4ever]

Cant see any reason why SWA would be 'rough'. If the joints are done properly and are internal then I cant see any reason why conduit would be preferable.

thank you, I have plenty of YouTube and guides for the gland fitting.....I will test everything and I am a perfectionist, so will do everything properly, just can't afford an electrician.....I do my own plumbing also, but as someone ' kindly' pointed out electricity is dangerous and I can certainly understand the concern felt......I repair computers and it's scary what some people do to them ....but again....it will not kill them....thanks once again

 

[Richard Burns]

A 30A terminal block would be a bit large for what you are intending and make it harder to get a good connection.
The boiler will be taking about 1 amp so a 6 amp terminal block would be enough but the terminals may be a bit fiddly to get the cores into.
If you have bought the proper test equipment to check the circuit this will have cost you more than employing an electrician.
I would practice fitting a gland on a piece of scrap cable first as it is easy to mess up the armour.

 

[davesparks]

thank you, I have plenty of YouTube and guides for the gland fitting.....I will test everything and I am a perfectionist, so will do everything properly, just can't afford an electrician.....I do my own plumbing also, but as someone ' kindly' pointed out electricity is dangerous and I can certainly understand the concern felt......I repair computers and it's scary what some people do to them ....but again....it will not kill them....thanks once again

The test equipment required will be more expensive than the electrician to do the job!

 

[Octopus]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink....

 

[Midwest]

I am replacing a 1.5 internal cable that was run temporarily to give a constant on feed to,my new boiler, as the previous one didn't require this. Unfortunately the only route this could take was from a bedroom ceiling through the floor to the boiler downstairs.

I intend running a 1.5 armoured cable from the loft area, picking up the existing 1.5 cable which comes from the airing cupboard and central heating control /pump.

Just as all the others have advised, get yourself an electrician before you electrocute yourself or someone else. You are asking too many basic questions about installation methods, without even the worry of when energise your work.

Out of interest, who installed your new boiler?

 

[Adam W]

are you terminating the armoured in to an adaptable box outside?

I probably would have used CW glands anyway, but he's already bought them now.
I think I would have tried to keep the cable continuous as well, instead of having extra joints, but there you go.

 

[ipf]

The test equipment required will be more expensive than the electrician to do the job!

...and a course incorporating instruction of how to operate said equipment would cost even more.

....mind you, there is always You Tube :censored:

 

[Leesparkykent]

Cant see any reason why SWA would be 'rough'. If the joints are done properly and are internal then I cant see any reason why conduit would be preferable.

would you wire your heating system in SWA then?:willy_nilly:

 

[Octopus]

would you wire your heating system in SWA then?:willy_nilly:

No but all mine is wired internally! Lol

I still want to know if the cable he has bought has enough cores - he seems reluctant to answer my question.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

would you wire your heating system in SWA then?:willy_nilly:

See post #32!

 

[Leesparkykent]

No but all mine is wired internally! Lol

I still want to know if the cable he has bought has enough cores - he seems reluctant to answer my question.

lol the old boiler would of had SL,N,E. New boiler would need SL, perm live, pump live, neutral, earth so probably only needs two extra cores. so would of thought the 3 core the OP has bought would be ok.

I just don't understand why a sparks would opt for SWA....The cable needs connecting to the boiler and wiring centre so got to gland the cable off either end in to a box and make two unnecessary joints in the cable.

 

[Leesparkykent]

See post #32!

Yes I see it?

 

[Octopus]

lol the old boiler would of had SL,N,E. New boiler would need SL, perm live, pump live, neutral, earth so probably only needs two extra cores. so would of thought the 3 core the OP has bought would be ok.

I just don't understand why a sparks would opt for SWA....The cable needs connecting to the boiler and wiring centre so got to gland the cable off either end in to a box and make two unnecessary joints in the cable.

Hum... if you are going to that extreme to run a new cable than I would probably run all the relevant cores in a single cable - but that's just me!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hum... if you are going to that extreme to run a new cable than I would probably run all the relevant cores in a single cable - but that's just me!

I Agree. maybe he should buy 5core SWA instead haha

 

[davesparks]

would you wire your heating system in SWA then?:willy_nilly:

I have done it once, but then the boiler was in an outbuilding separate from the house and the SWA was underground to/from it.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I have done it once, but then the boiler was in an outbuilding separate from the house and the SWA was underground to/from it.

Same here with an external oil boiler.

 

[davesparks]

Same here with an external oil boiler.

Yeah my one was oil too, I don't understand how it can be at all energy efficient to have 30mtrs or so of flow and return pipe underground!

 

[reddwarf4ever]

No but all mine is wired internally! Lol

I still want to know if the cable he has bought has enough cores - he seems reluctant to answer my question.

the original run on live feed cable is twin & earth....the armoured is three core...a direct replacement...

 

[reddwarf4ever]

I came on here for some basic advice. it. seems this forum is for electricians only or for those who can afford an electrician....
Maybe I would have been better off in the DIY section.....
Update....I have now fitted the SWA cable to an external wall, with proper clamps, terminated with a gland kit, to an earthed wall mounted internal enclosure.....Everything works perfectly...I know electricity is dangerous....I don't know what sort of advice could be given on these forums to ' someone not an ' electrician that wouldnt be deemed dangerous....
So thanks everyone...PS, there is nothing that. cant be discovered via the Internet,I just hoped that asking on a forum such as this would give correct advice, for the most part unfortunately I feel I have just been told off.....oh well....

 

[reddwarf4ever]

I can't remember the installers name,but was unhappy with his performance, I had to help him lift the old boiler off the wall..I asked about the permanent live feed ( reading the manual while waiting ) he said he wasn't an electrician and I would have to sort that myself.....the boiler continually tripped on high temps and the pump didn't run on , as no cable available....he left me with a non working boiler and never returned...I had a plumber sort out the air issue, by combining the overflow with the supply....worked perfectly.....the got an electrician to run a permanent live feed...down an internal wall.( which I have just replaced.

 

[Octopus]

the original run on live feed cable is twin & earth....the armoured is three core...a direct replacement...

So in summary you have replaced one botch with another.

So did you pay the original gas man his bill for his botch job too?

 

[reddwarf4ever]

So in summary you have replaced one botch with another.

So did you pay the original gas man his bill for his botch job too?

Your reply is very rude.....thought this would be a good friendly place to get advice, apparently I was wrong.
IMO Electricians have generally been highly self opinionated and very reluctant to discuss electrical work....whereas plumbers, carpenters etc are much more friendly and always willing to help and give advice......

Some advice on this forum has been helpful and friendly, sadly not yours...replies such as yours just alienates people and is so very unhelpful.

 

[Octopus]

Your reply is very rude.....thought this would be a good friendly place to get advice, apparently I was wrong.
IMO Electricians have generally been highly self opinionated and very reluctant to discuss electrical work....whereas plumbers, carpenters etc are much more friendly and always willing to help and give advice......

Some advice on this forum has been helpful and friendly, sadly not yours...replies such as yours just alienates people and is so very unhelpful.

I am only playing you at your game. You don't exactly jump to answer direct questions, so why should we.

Did you pay the original gas installer in full for his, botch job?

 

[reddwarf4ever]

Have requested to cancel my subscription to this forum......

thanks to to all the ' helpful' people

 

[ipf]

I came on here for some basic advice. it. seems this forum is for electricians only or for those who can afford an electrician....
Maybe I would have been better off in the DIY section.....
Update....I have now fitted the SWA cable to an external wall, with proper clamps, terminated with a gland kit, to an earthed wall mounted internal enclosure.....Everything works perfectly...I know electricity is dangerous....I don't know what sort of advice could be given on these forums to ' someone not an ' electrician that wouldnt be deemed dangerous....
So thanks everyone...PS, there is nothing that. cant be discovered via the Internet,I just hoped that asking on a forum such as this would give correct advice, for the most part unfortunately I feel I have just been told off.....oh well....

Keep living in cloud cuckoo land, ignorance is bliss.

 

[davesparks]

the original run on live feed cable is twin & earth....the armoured is three core...a direct replacement...

Actually as a point of technicality it is not a direct replacement, a strictly direct replacement would be 2core SWA

 

[PEG]

Cheers for the heads up, we are at the moment giving the DIY section a break and letting them run in the normal forum, the initial reason for the section was to stop DIYers been ganged up on, we could choose which members to admit to give advice, as the forum is now a very different place and the key offenders no longer frequent the forum we are seeing how leaving DIY in the main section goes, of course we will still update the OP's tag as DIY when Admin is next online. We haven't used the DIY section for quite a few weeks now and we are seeing the respect and advice given is good thus far.

The other issue with DIY is once moved over to that section then some members who had posted while the thread waited to be relocated and didn't have access were no longer able to follow the thread or reply.

Hi pal,having just read this to the end,i suspect this idea will be fraught with issues...:cyclist: