Is this the end of 6 week wonders? New Domestic Gold Card Apprenticeship announced

[Electrics]

Remind me how many DIY Daves or Bob the Builders are doing porridge for breaching Part Pee ???

What 'breach' of Part P? As far as i'm aware that's just a building regulation that states the HOMEOWNER has to inform Building Control of electrical work. That's why people get away with doing it, because it's not an actual law governing what an ELECTRICIAN must and mustn't do.

 

[SparkySy]

I don't think it being illegal will make a great difference there are plenty of things out there that are but it doesn't stop people doing them!
Even gas works are still undertaken by those who are not qualified! The more honest of people will be turned away by it but there will always be those who really don't care as they make too much money from scamming people!
Got to love capitalism!

 

[Electrics]

I don't think it being illegal will make a great difference there are plenty of things out there that are but it doesn't stop people doing them!
Even gas works are still undertaken by those who are not qualified! The more honest of people will be turned away by it but there will always be those who really don't care as they make too much money from scamming people!
Got to love capitalism!

But how many people would undertake a £5k 6 week course knowing they wouldn't be allowed to touch electric after?

You don't think this stops an influx of career changers doing short domestic courses?

Those doing it for beer money will continue to do so and always will. This stops honest people (most of them) from taking on short courses to get into the industry.

Combine that with the planned changes for competent person schemes demanding experience not just 2365 and you really don't think this changes anything at all?

A***Skills and TS4U are, between them, doing £6.7m of 'sales' per year. If you count that as everyone paying the full £9k it's 745 people per year not coming into the industry and that's just two providers.

When you consider that the vast majority of their sales are not the full £9k but sometimes just £2500-5k for the domestic routes that number is up to 3-4 times larger.

What percentage of those 745 people will pay that money knowing they will not be able to touch electric after? What proportion of them will say 'ah ---- it' and set up on their own anyway without paying the course fees?

If even 10% do, that's between 650ish to 2500 people per year not entering the profession just based on those two training centres.

Now what about the thousands on 2365 Diploma's up and down the country who aren't working for someone? If they are also banned from working without a portfolio/experience then they will have to get jobs, meaning they also won't leave en masse and set up alone.

I think this stops massive dilution of the industry.

 

[Dustydazzler]

What we all really want to know IS ...

Will it make you a QUALIFIED electrician

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

From my experience, everyone carrying out electrical work who shouldn't be hasn't even been on one of these 6 week courses you're talking about. They're just handymen who think they can do it but they couldn't be more wrong

 

[Dartlec]

What 'breach' of Part P? As far as i'm aware that's just a building regulation that states the HOMEOWNER has to inform Building Control of electrical work. That's why people get away with doing it, because it's not an actual law governing what an ELECTRICIAN must and mustn't do.

That's because of how poorly Part P was introduced and awareness pushed out by the authorities.

It makes some work notifiable, but it also applies to ALL new work done that comes under building regulations.

In fact it's the only legally binding document that covers electrical work, though it mostly just says 'do it as BS7671 says', with the exception of things like socket heights, etc.

It's only real clause is that:

"P1. Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury"​

But breaching it is a criminal offence.

For whatever reason, the authorities almost never prosecute a breach of it though, and where electrical incompetence is involved they generally seem to go the EAWR route, perhaps because there are higher penalties (penalties for building regulations are fines only, though technically unlimited as to amount).

What SHOULD be happening is that LABC were funded and trained appropriately to monitor work in their area, and dish out enforcement notices to require crappy work to be corrected. Instead, building inspectors are generally being privatised, overworked, and as often as not barely visit a site any more in my experience, let alone monitor whether electrical work has been done properly. (Some areas are better than others)

Fun fact: The current Part P document on the Gov.uk site still says: "Electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment No 1:2011"

 

[Dustydazzler]

From my experience, everyone carrying out electrical work who shouldn't be hasn't even been on one of these 6 week courses you're talking about. They're just handymen who think they can do it but they couldn't be more wrong

THIS

An these very same people will have zero idea about this new courses and new accreditation.
They will carry on doing what they have always been doing.
The only way things will ever change is if you start throwing builders in jail who try to wire up their own work...

Inventing a new 'course' will make absolutely ZERO difference to the handyman , DIY dave and Bob the Builder world of electrics

 

[Dartlec]

THIS

An these very same people will have zero idea about this new courses and new accreditation.
They will carry on doing what they have always been doing.
The only way things will ever change is if you start throwing builders in jail who try to wire up their own work...

Inventing a new 'course' will make absolutely ZERO difference to the handyman , DIY dave and Bob the Builder world of electrics

100%

And include Kevin the kitchen fitter and Benjamin the bathroom fitter in that....

 

[Electrics]

I really don't get how nobody seems to realise this thread is about those doing short courses and not 'dave down the pub'. It's even in the thread title. ?

 

[Dartlec]

I really don't get how nobody seems to realise this thread is about those doing short courses and not 'dave down the pub'. It's even in the thread title. ?

But the purpose of this change is presumably to raise the standards of domestic work? That's the issue with this change.

If the change is purely to stop short courses happening, then they may well achieve that - but it will make little practical difference - it may even make things worse.

I have little to no faith in the ability of this Government (or any previous one tbf) to suitably legislate in a way that achieves what is needed. Too many landlords with hands directly on the wheel of power or the ear of those that do to achieve an outcome that helps the industry AND homeowners.

As a 'short courser' from the very start of Part P days, I'm happy to admit that they have many flaws - but then again I've seen enough dodgy work from 'fully qualified' tradesmen with all the certificates to know that it's more complicated than that...

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I really don't get how nobody seems to realise this thread is about those doing short courses and not 'dave down the pub'. It's even in the thread title. ?

Your opening post talks about DIY work, and making domestic electrical work exclusive to those who are qualified (which it currently isn't, and the introduction of this qualification alone isn't going to change that). No mention of short courses until later on.

 

[Electrics]

Your opening post talks about DIY work, and making domestic electrical work exclusive to those who are qualified (which it currently isn't, and the introduction of this qualification alone isn't going to change that). No mention of short courses until later on.

It's in the title.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I really don't get how nobody seems to realise this thread is about those doing short courses and not 'dave down the pub'. It's even in the thread title. ?

You said it was to stop people undertaking electrical work in homes which is what the 6 week courses were trying to do

All you are doing is making the 6 week course a 6 month course or whatever

 

[Electrics]

You said it was to stop people undertaking electrical work in homes which is what the 6 week courses were trying to do

All you are doing is making the 6 week course a 6 month course or whatever

3 year apprenticeship. Did you watch the video?

My point is that honest decent people aren't going to undertake work that they're not legally allowed to do, knowing full well they're not legally allowed to do it. Which is most people.

They will also not pay for courses that don't give them their desired result.

This will 100% result in less competition in the domestic sector if done properly. How many people wanting to change career will do so if they know they have to essentially find an apprenticeship or get taken on as a mate for 5 years to become a 'experienced worker'? Not many i'd wager.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

It's in the title.

So you went off topic then. This is probably why everyone else went off topic. You must stick to the subject yourself if you want everyone else to.

 

[Dustydazzler]

So in a nut shell the course providers are changing from 6 weeks to 36 months...

Marvelous , it won't make a jot of difference in the short term

DIY Dave and Kevin the Kitchen Fitter will carry on regardless and will do safe in the knowledge that they won't ever be pulled up for doing so

At 43 I certainly won't be retraining or doing another apprecticeship , not a chance

I will carry on regardless, doing what I have been doing for the past 25 years

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

6 week courses shouldn't enable someone to carry out electrical work but I bet a lot of people doing the 6 week courses are decent and honest people who have been sold a load of crap but actually believe that it's worth something and at least they've went out of their way to try and gain knowledge... fair play to them!

The dodgy builder who comes to site and manages to convince the customer that they're capable of doing building, electrical and plumbing works and then goes ahead and attempts it all themselves without subbying the work out.... these are the people that need dealt with!

 

[Electrics]

So you went off topic then. This is probably why everyone else went off topic. You must stick to the subject yourself if you want everyone else to.

?

 

[Zerax]

What SHOULD be happening is that LABC were funded and trained appropriately to monitor work in their area, and dish out enforcement notices to require crappy work to be corrected. Instead, building inspectors are generally being privatised, overworked, and as often as not barely visit a site any more in my experience, let alone monitor whether electrical work has been done properly. (Some areas are better than others)

Personally... I don't want my council tax to go up any higher ! So I'd like to see the trade bodies actually do something for the extortionate annual fee... Let's legally enforce them to actually be responsible for the standard of their members ??

 

[Electrics]

So in a nut shell the course providers are changing from 6 weeks to 36 months...

Marvelous , it won't make a jot of difference in the short term

DIY Dave and Kevin the Kitchen Fitter will carry on regardless and will do safe in the knowledge that they won't ever be pulled up for doing so

At 43 I certainly won't be retraining or doing another apprecticeship , not a chance

I will carry on regardless, doing what I have been doing for the past 25 years

Nope, none of this was said anywhere. I don't think you watched or understood the video.

They are bringing in a domestic apprenticeship which results in a Gold Card to prove you've done said apprenticeship. For those that haven't you will have to prove competency through an 'experienced worker' route. It's likely competent persons schemes will require these to join in future.

If they made this a legal requirement you would do it, wouldn't you? You certainly wouldn't just carry on as is since you seemingly made a huge fuss recently about those not signing up to a scheme being 'cowboys' and leaving all the 'decent, honest' electricians to compete with the prices of those who don't have joining fees..

Nothing about course providers changing to 36 months, nothing about you needing to 'do another apprenticeship' ?