Is this the end of 6 week wonders? New Domestic Gold Card Apprenticeship announced

[Electrics]

New Domestic Apprenticeship announced leading to Domestic Gold Card

Interesting.

Still as clear as mud how this will work but this is probably the thing we've all been waiting for.

Hopefully it will clear the waters and stop DIY Dave having a go - making a Gold Card the standard should make domestic electrics like Gas Safe where people will start to recognise that only those who hold a qualification should be touching them. The beauty of industrial/commercial work is it's extremely hard to get work in those sectors if you're not absolutely 'qualified' with a Gold Card. Some blokes even struggle when they have the qualifications but haven't served their time.

This change in the domestic sector will in turn drive up prices and help real electricians who charge real prices secure the work instead of someone quoting pittance to do a bodge.

What say you, board?

 

[ipf]

I've a feeling, with all the new house building 'planned' by the government that we're going to need a hell of a lot of newly qualified 'trades people' in the next few years. With brexit we're not going to be importing any ...so where are they going to come from?
Are these 'private teaching firms' offering qualification courses going to get their houses in order?
.....or are we going to re build and open all the technical colleges that used to be, to provide proper apprenticeships?...Some chance!
More means for money making for the scammers and friends, I'll wager.

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

I don't do any domestic works so forgive me for asking but what's the current requirement for carrying out domestic works and how does one achieve said requirements?

 

[Dustydazzler]

This will be my last post on this topic as most people all ready know my views on scams

But good luck with the 3 year competent person scams and I am sure you will get some poor saps to part with their hard earned money

But nothing will change and nothing will stop me finding botched installations every week that was supposedly fitted by an 'electrician'

 

[Electrics]

I don't do any domestic works so forgive me for asking but what's the current requirement for carrying out domestic works and how does one achieve said requirements?

There are none.

 

[Electrics]

This will be my last post on this topic as most people all ready know my views on scams

But good luck with the 3 year competent person scams and I am sure you will get some poor saps to part with their hard earned money

But nothing will change and nothing will stop me finding botched installations every week that was supposedly fitted by an 'electrician'

So if they say you can't join a competent person's scheme without a gold card you're going to give up work? Did you do the same when the schemes themselves came out?

 

[Zerax]

...or are we going to re build and open all the technical colleges that used to be, to provide proper apprenticeships?...Some chance!

Great idea... maybe divert some of the money squandered on universities ? A degree in 'Meja Studies' vs. A trade apprenticeship ??

 

[Pretty Mouth]

So if they say you can't join a competent person's scheme without a gold card you're going to give up work? Did you do the same when the schemes themselves came out?

What makes you think that a gold card will be compulsory to carry out electrical work?

 

[GBDamo]

From my experience, everyone carrying out electrical work who shouldn't be hasn't even been on one of these 6 week courses you're talking about. They're just handymen who think they can do it but they couldn't be more wrong

This.

Those that take the time and commitment to change career, spend thousands and gain the required* qualifications are rarely the ones to worry about.

They are no more or less likely to turn cowboy as those that went the full college, apprenticeship, NVQ and AM2 route.

Some control is undoubtedly needed but you have to ask how THIS and previous attempts are going to deliver this.

The vast majority of those offering unqualified and uncertified electrical services will continue to do so as THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING that the work has been done.

People don't care in that any new circuit to the garage, garden room, loft conversion, hot tub will often never come to light. The only real mechanism is on the sale of a house and even then chances are it will not be picked up.

The parallels with gas are a bit of a false comparison as, one, the opportunities for gas work are usually no more than 2-3 per property and, two, even with gas anyone can go into screwfix and buy a cooker hose. Do you really think there is no illegal gas work going on?

All this is is a rebranding of the present state of affairs, more schemes, more certificates, more paper course,more hurdles to jump, more expense to those that do the job properly....

....and most importantly more expense to the customer who is even more likely to get dodgy Dave in to fit that new light.


(*required, not necessarily desirable or the experience that is essential)

 

[Electrics]

What makes you think that a gold card will be compulsory to carry out electrical work?

I said 'if'. Hypothetical.

 

[LukeD]

There will be a few people on facebook etc who buy a nice card printer and sell perfect copies of these Gold cards for £80 .

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

There are none.

Thought you had to be Part P registered or NICEIC approved contractor etc.?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Thought you had to be Part P registered or NICEIC approved contractor etc.?

It's easier/cheaper for someone on a scheme to notify any notifiable work. Doesn't mean those not on a scheme can't do it though, there are other ways, plus not all domestic work is notifiable.

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

It's easier/cheaper for someone on a scheme to notify any notifiable work. Doesn't mean those not on a scheme can't do it though, there are other ways, plus not all domestic work is notifiable.

So basically, anyone can do electrical work and we just need to hope that those doing it know what they're doing and that's the best we can hope for?

 

[Electrics]

So basically, anyone can do electrical work and we just need to hope that those doing it know what they're doing and that's the best we can hope for?

Exactly.

The only thing stopping anyone doing any domestic work they want is that some of it should be notified to building control and often the customer will expect the electrician to do it via certifying the installation after the work is complete.

If you do electrical work without doing this the homeowner has to do it.

Currently, there's nothing to stop anybody from doing any domestic electrical work.

 

[ipf]

There will be a few people on facebook etc who buy a nice card printer and sell perfect copies of these Gold cards for £80 .

Blimey!...that's an hour's work charge for some.......or £20 short of a call out charge.

 

[ipf]

Currently, there's nothing to stop anybody from doing any domestic electrical work.

Except ethics.....but that thought went down the pan for many, ages back.

 

[Electrics]

Except ethics.....but that thought went down the pan for many, ages back.

I would guess people who feel confident and competent to do the work wouldn't have a problem with ethics since they probably don't think they're doing anything wrong.

That said i find people to be much more ---- online about all the stuff we talk about on here compared with real life where most people really don't care.

 

[ipf]

I would guess people who feel confident and competent to do the work wouldn't have a problem with ethics since they probably don't think they're doing anything wrong.

That said i find people to be much more ---- online about all the stuff we talk about on here compared with real life where most people really don't care.

A better way of putting it,
If they get what they pay for, OK....if they don't, they've no idea anyway, so who gives a t0$$.

Some of us are still ethical, by the way.
Plenty, in a position to be, ARE NOT.

 

[Electrics]

A better way of putting it,
If they get what they pay for, OK....if they don't, they've no idea anyway, so who gives a t0$$.

Some of us are still ethical, by the way.
Plenty in a position to be ARE NOT.

Depends how you define ethical though.

I wouldn't say carrying out a CU change for example with zero qualifications is 'unethical' if you know you can do the job safely. Some would.

 

[ipf]

Depends how you define ethical though.

I wouldn't say carrying out a CU change for example with zero qualifications is 'unethical' if you know you can do the job safely. Some would.

My point's made.
Keep picking, if you you've got an itch, essex.

 

[Electrics]

tMy point's made.
Keep picking, if you you've got an itch, essex.

Doing the same job as someone who has paperwork, just without paperwork, isn't unethical. Real ethics have little to do with arbitrary regulations made up by men. I don't consider people like Edison or Franklin to be charlatans because they lacked formal education. I wouldn't consider it unethical for Franklin to teach electrical engineering to somebody because he didn't have the formal education of others. If you do, crack on mate.

No idea what your Essex comment is about.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Those carrying out work in their own properties are entitled to do so....

Those going round telling folk they're competent at this, that and't other....but then not carrying out works to the required standards whilst charging for it need exposing and dealing with...
Part P is a building reg....scheme membership is an ACCREDITATION....not a qualification....
So, anyone going round claiming they're "Part P qualified" needs treating with suspicion...

This does not necessarily include Kev kitchen, Barry bathroom fitter, Bobby builder and Fred the floor layer etc etc...

 

[Electrics]

Those carrying out work in their own properties are entitled to do so....

Those going round telling folk they're competent at this, that and't other....but then not carrying out works to the required standards whilst charging for it need exposing and dealing with...
Part P is a building reg....scheme membership is an ACCREDITATION....not a qualification....
So, anyone going round claiming they're "Part P qualified" needs treating with suspicion...

This does not necessarily include Kev kitchen, Barry bathroom fitter, Bobby builder and Fred the floor layer etc etc...

There's no such thing as 'part p qualified' as far as i know.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

There's no such thing as 'part p qualified' as far as i know.

But you hear of people going round claiming they're "part P qualified".....I've heard it several times from customers...
"Oh, he said he was part P qualified"

?

 

[Electrics]

But you hear of people going round claiming they're "part P qualified".....I've heard it several times from customers...
"Oh, he said he was part P qualified"

?

Part P is just a building regulation.

 

[LukeD]

Part P is just a building regulation.

This sums the whole mess the industry is in and the false sense of security the public face

 

[loz2754]

Part P is just a building regulation.

But you can take a course in building regulations for domestic properties, including Part P, and a city and guilds exam which results in you receiving a certificate C&G 2393-10.

In much the same way as you can take the 2382 and receive a certificate, showing that you are versed in BS7671:2018:2021.

Both of which are among the courses offered by the private training facilities.

None of which mean diddly squat of course, without the rest of the courses and the on the job experience needed to become a competent electrician.

The idea that a person can become an electrician in a few weeks has been allowed to fester and prosper, instead of being squashed flat by the powers that be, as it should have been from the start. Now we're seeing the effects of this watering down of our industry.

I'm not against the new 3 year domestic apprenticeship, I just think it will make very little difference in terms of improving the standards and raising the bar.

 

[loz2754]

Those carrying out work in their own properties are entitled to do so....

Yes they are. As long as they take on the responsibility for notifying any notifiable works that they choose to do. Otherwise they'll be breaking the law.
And because of the general lack of knowledge and understanding of the whole ridiculous Part P scheme, they'll probably have no idea that they're breaking the law.