Newbies in UK and storage heaters, off peak, all stuff

[NicoleAm]

Hi,
My husband and I recently moved to the UK and a new flat, after living always in accommodations. We have some big answers about the electrical system in the flat, and I hope you could help me.

I'll leave you some photos to explain ourselves.

Q.1: we have one switchboard that says “storage heaters and off-peak water heater only”. In the photo, you could see that we have the main switch apparently in an OFF position.is this right? We recently moved up, and we see the ON letters. The question is... When we see the letter ON the switch is ON?

Q.2: If this switch is off-peak only, does this means that the water heater and storage heaters only charge in the night?

Q.3: we never got hot water if we don't use the Water Heater Boost, we don't know is it due to having the main Switch OFF. The water heater has one switch in the cupboard which lights up when we use the Boost timer. Does this light bright at midnight or off-peak tariff?

Q.4: About the storage heaters. These are digitally controlled and have two switches, one off-peak and one on-peak. We have the both ON during these days, but we read about the On-peak should be off in the day, and use it only in cold weather, and the off-peak always on. Supposedly this will charge in the night. This is right? Because, again, as we don't know if the switch was ok, these storage heaters doesn't seems charged.

Thank you for your help

 

[Avo Mk8]

Hi,
My husband and I recently moved to the UK and a new flat, after living always in accommodations. We have some big answers about the electrical system in the flat, and I hope you could help me.

I'll leave you some photos to explain ourselves.

Q.1: we have one switchboard that says “storage heaters and off-peak water heater only”. In the photo, you could see that we have the main switch apparently in an OFF position.is this right?

The storage heater board is "OFF" in your photo. I imagine it has just been turned off because nobody was at the property, you should turn it ON!

Q.2: does this means that the water heater and storage heaters only charge in the night?

yes.

Q.3: we never got hot water if we don't use the Water Heater Boost, we don't know is it due to having the main Switch OFF.

Yes - turn the main switch on, and you should have the main water heater element heat the tank at night.

The water heater has one switch in the cupboard which lights up when we use the Boost timer. Does this light bright at midnight or off-peak tariff?

The boost usually uses peak rate (ie daytime) electricity, otherwise the boost switch would no do anything during the day!

Q.4: About the storage heaters. These are digitally controlled and have two switches, one off-peak and one on-peak. We have the both ON during these days, but we read about the On-peak should be off in the day, and use it only in cold weather, and the off-peak always on. Supposedly this will charge in the night. This is right?

yes. The switches on the wall for power into the heater should both be on. Adjust the controls on the heater to mainly use night storage, but you may find you need a little on-peak in the afternoon/evening to "top up" in cold weather.

If you haven't been left instructions for appliances like the storage heaters, you can usually find then on the internet!

Because, again, as we don't know if the switch was ok, these storage heaters doesn't seems charged.

Thank you for your help

 

[NicoleAm]

The storage heater board is "OFF" in your photo. I imagine it has just been turned off because nobody was at the property, you should turn it ON!

yes

Yes - turn the main switch on, and you should have the main water heater element heat the tank at night.

The boost usually uses peak rate (ie daytime) electricity, otherwise the boost switch would no do anything during the day!

yes

Thank you! This could fix everything. I'll check tomorrow if everything works fine.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Thank you! This could fix everything. I'll check tomorrow if everything works fine.

Do let us know the outcome

 

[Avo Mk8]

Thank you! This could fix everything. I'll check tomorrow if everything works fine.

And just to clarify - your hot water cylinder will probably have two immersion heaters in it, the 'boost' one about half-way up, which can be turned on during the day, and another immersion heater at the bottom of the tank that runs on the off-peak supply, so comes on at night. You will have more hot water available to you with the bottom heater in operation!

 

[NicoleAm]

And just to clarify - your hot water cylinder will probably have two immersion heaters in it, the 'boost' one about half-way up, which can be turned on during the day, and another immersion heater at the bottom of the tank that runs on the off-peak supply, so comes on at night. You will have more hot water available to you with the bottom heater in operation!

I understand what you say, because I have seen some photos about that. I attach some photos because I'm afraid that is just one switch (with the white wire, connected to the Up side of the water heater). There is another switch Labeled “shower” ( we always let it ON) connected to a third switch that let the water go out. This last switch always is OFF, because we use it just to take a shower, because the handle faucet is just for control temperature.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I understand what you say, because I have seen some photos about that. I attach some photos because I'm afraid that is just one switch (with the white wire, connected to the Up side of the water heater). There is another switch Labeled “shower” ( we always let it ON) connected to a third switch that let the water go out. This last switch always is OFF, because we use it just to take a shower, because the handle faucet is just for control temperature.

OK. I see you have an immersion heater in the top of the tank.
So that could possibly be dual element, with a short heater for the top half of the tank, and a long element to heat the whole tank. Or maybe it was once like that, but not any more.
But that immersion seems to have a single cable to a single switch, so I'm not sure what you have now!

See what happens when the off-peak board is switched on!

 

[brianmoooore]

The boost timer shown has double pole, double throw switching, so can safely be used to completely switch the water heater supply from one supply to the other, and hence can be used with a single immersion heater element for off peak and boost.

 

[NicoleAm]

OK. I see you have an immersion heater in the top of the tank.
So that could possibly be dual element, with a short heater for the top half of the tank, and a long element to heat the whole tank. Or maybe it was once like that, but not any more.
But that immersion seems to have a single cable to a single switch, so I'm not sure what you have now!

See what happens when the off-peak board is switched on!

Hi again,
I have good news and bad news.
The good news is that the water heater works at night and in the morning we had nice hot water.
The bad news is that storage heaters didn't charge in the night left them only with off-peak switch. They didn't charge with on-peak either, but when we arrive at the flat there was a middle charge. We did something wrong I think.

Some ideas about what should I look for?

 

[Avo Mk8]

Hi again,
I have good news and bad news.
The good news is that the water heater works at night and in the morning we had nice hot water.

I'm pleased that's all OK

The bad news is that storage heaters didn't charge in the night left them only with off-peak switch.

Are you saying you switched off the permanent (on-peak) power at the wall? I think that was the wrong thing to do, as there may be a controller inside the heater that needs that electricity to function.

They didn't charge with on-peak either, but when we arrive at the flat there was a middle charge. We did something wrong I think.

Could you tell me the make and model number of the storage heater? If you have been left instructions it should be on them, otherwise there should be a label or rating plate on the heater.
In your photo I can see a name on the bottom left of the heater, but can't make it out!
Is it an Elnur Ecombi SSH?

 

[NicoleAm]

I'm pleased that's all OK

Are you saying you switched off the permanent (on-peak) power at the wall? I think that was the wrong thing to do, as there may be a controller inside the heater that needs that electricity to function.

Could you tell me the make and model number of the storage heater? If you have been left instructions it should be on them, otherwise there should be a label or rating plate on the heater.
In your photo I can see a name on the bottom left of the heater, but can't make it out!
Is it an Elnur Ecombi SSH?View attachment 93420

Ok, I have the manual, and we have seen that the manual had instructions that the Storage Heater doesn't have (parameters, configurations, that doesn't appear in our devices). We have two little Ecombi SSH158 and one bigger Ecombi SSH308.

I found the page about charging (attached photo). I don't know if this is correct.... I have to use the storage heater at a comfort temperature, so the software will determinate how many charge will need the next day? If I don't use it, it will not charge?

Also, the parameter UP01 (initial % of storage charge) it is actually 100%, but the storage heater doesn’t have charge. Maybe I should change it to 0%?

 

[Zerax]

If you haven't already done so... I'd also check your tariff from your supplier.

When I bought my flat I discovered that although I had a storage heater, there was no off-peak tariff, so the cost of heating was astronomical. I further discovered that there was never any provision for off-peak usage (this was before Smart Meters), so why there was a storage heater was a mystery... and why only 1 ? There were also 2 elements in the hot water cylinder, both off the same B16 MCB... so if you switched them both on, it tripped. All very strange... breakdowns in communications/specs and Friday afternoons I suspect.

 

[NicoleAm]

If you haven't already done so... I'd also check your tariff from your supplier.

When I bought my flat I discovered that although I had a storage heater, there was no off-peak tariff, so the cost of heating was astronomical. I further discovered that there was never any provision for off-peak usage (this was before Smart Meters), so why there was a storage heater was a mystery... and why only 1 ? There were also 2 elements in the hot water cylinder, both off the same B16 MCB... so if you switched them both on, it tripped. All very strange... breakdowns in communications/specs and Friday afternoons I suspect.

Thank you, we have a Economy 7 tariff with Octopus, but we are still giving readings to accurate the month bill.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I think there is a misunderstanding over programming the heaters. For example I believe the 24 hour 'bar' dots represent when you want warmth to come out of the heater, comfort temp or economy temp, so you need at least one row of dots over all 24 hours, otherwise according to the newer instructions I have, the heater goes into 'frost protection' mode and does not charge at all.
There are only dots showing for the off-peak time. That's not right. The off-peak time is set in the parameters.
I suggest a good read of your instructions. Yours seem to be an earlier version of what I've found.

And could you confirm - you do have the 'on-peak' wall switch ON at all times?

It's worth considering doing a 'factory reset' to the controllers, as I think the default off-peak times match your supply, and that might get the heaters working well enough for you.

 

[NicoleAm]

I think there is a misunderstanding over programming the heaters. For example I believe the 24 hour 'bar' dots represent when you want warmth to come out of the heater, comfort temp or economy temp, so you need at least one row of dots over all 24 hours, otherwise according to the newer instructions I have, the heater goes into 'frost protection' mode and does not charge at all.
There are only dots showing for the off-peak time. That's not right. The off-peak time is set in the parameters.
I suggest a good read of your instructions. Yours seem to be an earlier version of what I've found.

And could you confirm - you do have the 'on-peak' wall switch ON at all times?

Actually, the dots point out the hours and days of the weekly charge period. The manual had configurations that our Ecombi doesn't have, like programming mode, when we press follow the instructions we only have Func., Time Settings, and Parameters Menu.
And in Parameter Menu we haven't all parameters as the manual.

Just yesterday we put on the off-peak main switch, but the On-Peak of the Ecombi off. So we will try again to let the Ecombi all day and night on. To see if it configures itself.

Also I write to the company to ask more details. I'll let you know if something works.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Actually, the dots point out the hours and days of the weekly charge period. The manual had configurations that our Ecombi doesn't have, like programming mode, when we press follow the instructions we only have Func., Time Settings, and Parameters Menu.
And in Parameter Menu we haven't all parameters as the manual.

Just yesterday we put on the off-peak main switch, but the On-Peak of the Ecombi off. So we will try again to let the Ecombi all day and night on. To see if it configures itself.

Also I write to the company to ask more details. I'll let you know if something works.

Do let us know what happens.

I'm still concerned about the program settings.
Your heaters have a date of Nov 2019 on them.
The manual I've been looking at is dated April 2020.

https://www.elnur.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Elnur_ECOMBI_SSH_User_Guide.pdf

My understanding is that the dots are not the charge period. The off-peak charging duration is determined by the processor based on the temperature you want and when you want It. If you don't give it the information about when you want to be warm, it won't work as intended! Also I don't think it will reconfigure itself, it will surely do whatever is set on the display.

I'm surprised your heater is behaving differently to the guide. Maybe an update took place at this time, but the user guide is for your models. No doubt the company will clarify.

Page 13 (top) shows how to return a unit to default settings. You could try this on one of them.

Do persevere with it. There don't seem to be any error codes displayed, so hopefully everything is working properly, just a question of tweaking the settings.

PS more technical info here !! https://www.elnur.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/ECOMBI-SSH-Digital-Smart-Storage-Heaters.pdf

 

[NicoleAm]

Do let us know what happens.

I'm still concerned about the program settings.
Your heaters have a date of Nov 2019 on them.
The manual I've been looking at is dated April 2020.

https://www.elnur.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Elnur_ECOMBI_SSH_User_Guide.pdf

My understanding is that the dots are not the charge period. The off-peak charging duration is determined by the processor based on the temperature you want and when you want It. If you don't give it the information about when you want to be warm, it won't work as intended! Also I don't think it will reconfigure itself, it will surely do whatever is set on the display.

I'm surprised your heater is behaving differently to the guide. Maybe an update took place at this time, but the user guide is for your models. No doubt the company will clarify.

Page 13 (top) shows how to return a unit to default settings. You could try this on one of them.

Do persevere with it. There don't seem to be any error codes displayed, so hopefully everything is working properly, just a question of tweaking the settings.

PS more technical info here !! https://www.elnur.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/ECOMBI-SSH-Digital-Smart-Storage-Heaters.pdf

Hi!!
I have good news about storage heaters.
As we didn't have the weekly programming option in the Ecombi, we tried with another parameter (UP08). If we put this in 0 (it was in 16 (hours)) even if the switch On-peak is on, the storage heather doesn't use energy without charge.
So we let this all day, the storage heater was basically off, but with the screen on. Until 10 pm. they haven't charged (so they didn't charge in day tariff, good)
But... at night the storage heaters charged!
We wake up today and the storage heaters Has 3 blocks of charge and automatically warmed the room

Thank you for the support!