PIR 16th Vs 17th please clarify

[scotsparky]

forgot how many ammendment the 16th had but had a lot of pen marks and scribbles in the book.

 

[Spudnik]

I think the biggest problem with the regs is that it tells what you must and must not do, but it does not give you any clues on how to achieve them, or not.

 

[scotsparky]

Thats where the skill of a tradesman comes in! Its an art that cannot be taught in a 6 week course.

 

[Spudnik]

Thats where the skill of a tradesman comes in! Its an art that cannot be taught in a 6 week course.

Absolutely indeed.

 

[baldsparkies]

Thats where the skill of a tradesman comes in! Its an art that cannot be taught in a 6 week course.

Here here mate, but now we are coming into the realms of eager to get on a part P scheme, show us yer money and presto welcome on board. Will be interesting to see what the future brings.

 

[professional]

I suppose if enough of the same questions are getting back to the iee from in the field electricians,then clarification comes to us through ammendmants.The 16th had more than it's fair share of those over the years.

There is no mechanism for this though - I have been saying this for years. The experiences of the real world do not influence decisions made by the people making the regs - there is no mechanisn for sparks to have a voice or any influence in any decision-making process.

Government consultations are only entered into AFTER all relevant decisions have already been made - and we get stuck with the half-baked results.

Electricians need a Trade Association! This could have a massive influence on policy - the politicians realise this and are actively blocking such a move.

 

[craig2210]

Hi there guys. I have read through the posts here regarding RCD's on circuits and what to class them as on a PIR and thought I would show my opinions. The new regs state that all circuits that supply portable appliances (socket outlets basically) need to have RCD protection unless supervised by a competant/skilled person. If this is not the case then this circuit needs to be class 1, REQUIRES URGENT ATTENTION. As does the installation of RCD's to circuits supplying current using equipment in a special location, this again requires a class 1. However, the current version of BS7671:2008 states that any cable burried in a wall that does not have an earthed metallic sheath or installed in earthed conduit needs to be protected by an RCD. Because this doesn't cause a greater risk or electric shick than socket outlets or current using equipment in a special location then this can been deemed as a class 4 "not complying with the current version of BS7671" unless, of course, the cables run out of the prescribed zones. If the cables were found NOT to be in prescribed zones AND not to be RCD protected then this should be deemed a class 1 as, again, there is a greater risk of electric shock. But, as everyone has stressed on here, it is all done to how we read and digest to regs as an individual. At the end of the day you are reporting on the condition of the current installation and also as to how SAFE that installation is. So if we have no RCD protection on socket outlets and special locations, undersized earth etc that common sense says this is NOT a safe place to be and is therefore UNSATISFACTORY. Hope this helps

 

[m4ttyd]

lol pathetic

 

[craig2210]

lol pathetic

What is?

 

[baldsparkies]

Craig, so there it is. The iee have issued a new set of regulations that states that all socket outlets used by unsupervised persons,(and thats virtually every house in the country) are now deemed to have rcd protection otherwise they are dangerous by admission code 1.
How many homes are we talking about here,and now ask yourself would they be classed as dangerous if the 16th were still current. Do you feel that when the iee brought the new regs into force they were aware of what they would be implying if indeed we are reading this correctly. If so surely it would have been the iee's responsibility to inform the general public through the media,news channels and local/ national papers that from this day fourth your home is a death trap,your electrics are unsafe and we are talking to something like 75% of the population.
Once again unless we can all agree on this,one way or the other then it needs clarification,and the sooner the better.
Can you remember the bonding plague that came with the 1st introduction of the 16th.A lady stops outside a biulding site with a pushchair to talk to a friend and the next thing she knows there's a green and yellow cable attached to it? (Sorry say's the young apprentice,but your pushchair contains conductive parts and your outside the equipotential bonding zone)