Pyro Meter Tails!

[trev]

Most fire alarm work up here is done with that crap FP stuff now. Bloody awful stuff.

 

[shanky887614]

Most fire alarm work up here is done with that crap FP stuff now. Bloody awful stuff.

same here.

the designers are idiots though, they speced a 70mm tp swa for our bms panel

it only has a 40amp main isolator and swa needs to go in the side then bend up into isolaror say 10" off bottom of panel

 

[Piratepete]

Thanks Dave Sparks for your detailed information. Your statement above is the one that bothers me most. The pot currently sits just below the meter with the leads directly connected. It will take a full right angle bend to get it into such a position that it can connect into a switchfuse. I have the added complications of getting the cutout upgraded and the meter connected into the switchfuse at the same time. Then there's the CU end to deal with where the Pyro is far too long to fit into the top of the main switch. I suppose I could mount the new CU lower on the wall and extend all the other cables (only 4 circuits).
I'm tending to think that this is a job to pass on to a pyro man. As I don't work full time anymore, I now have the luxury of being able to decline the jobs that look like being an absolute Pain in the Arse ! This looks like one.
Cheers
Pete

 

[davesparks]

Why does the cutout need upgrading?
I can't say without seeing the job, and I might need a tin hat after saying this around here but I might consider using a bit of discretion and keeping the pyro as the tails without a switchfuse.

Whereabouts in the country are you? There will no doubt be a member nearby who can assist with the pyro.

 

[CockneyReject]

same here.

the designers are idiots though, they speced a 70mm tp swa for our bms panel

it only has a 40amp main isolator and swa needs to go in the side then bend up into isolaror say 10" off bottom of panel

You can say that again mate

last commercial new build I was on they spec'd 100a supplies for the lift, bms, alarm and fire alarm panels

35mm 4c SWA for the lift and bms, bms panel was mounted right next to the mains and and had a 40a isolator and the lift was spec'd for a 32a commando plug with its 100a supply and 35mm SWA

the two alarm panels were spec'd for 16mm SWA's, I was in the office when our engineer rang the consultants and tore them a new one over it lad on the phone didn't know what to say

oh and they passed on using pyro for the fire alarm as they weren't sure if it would last the 30 year life the building had been given, it really does make you wonder where they find these clowns

 

[Piratepete]

Why does the cutout need upgrading?
I can't say without seeing the job, and I might need a tin hat after saying this around here but I might consider using a bit of discretion and keeping the pyro as the tails without a switchfuse.

Whereabouts in the country are you? There will no doubt be a member nearby who can assist with the pyro.

The CU is well over 4 metres away from the meter which would normally require a switchfuse, especially as PIR route is up through the cavity wall, then across in the ground floor ceiling void, and down into a cupboard. Is not 3 metres the accepted maximum direct length? The switchfuse would have to be installed in the meter cupboard. Is this still a no no for some dnos?

The job's in Southam, Warks. I've already called one well respected electrician - I quote his reply - hate the stuff, Avoid at all costs!!!

 

[shanky887614]

You can say that again mate

last commercial new build I was on they spec'd 100a supplies for the lift, bms, alarm and fire alarm panels

35mm 4c SWA for the lift and bms, bms panel was mounted right next to the mains and and had a 40a isolator and the lift was spec'd for a 32a commando plug with its 100a supply and 35mm SWA

the two alarm panels were spec'd for 16mm SWA's, I was in the office when our engineer rang the consultants and tore them a new one over it lad on the phone didn't know what to say

oh and they passed on using pyro for the fire alarm as they weren't sure if it would last the 30 year life the building had been given, it really does make you wonder where they find these clowns

the amusing thing is our panel is going to eventually run.

two normal ahu's frost,heating,cooling,filter etc

as well as 8 supply/extract fans

plus other stuff

i think the bigger extract fans are 2.6kw lol. the supply for the ahu's wont be very big

 

[shanky887614]

The CU is well over 4 metres away from the meter which would normally require a switchfuse, especially as PIR route is up through the cavity wall, then across in the ground floor ceiling void, and down into a cupboard. Is not 3 metres the accepted maximum direct length? The switchfuse would have to be installed in the meter cupboard. Is this still a no no for some dnos?

The job's in Southam, Warks. I've already called one well respected electrician - I quote his reply - hate the stuff, Avoid at all costs!!!

pyro is lovely stuff to work with, only rough old codgers or cack handed fools hate it

 

[davesparks]

The CU is well over 4 metres away from the meter which would normally require a switchfuse, especially as PIR route is up through the cavity wall, then across in the ground floor ceiling void, and down into a cupboard. Is not 3 metres the accepted maximum direct length? The switchfuse would have to be installed in the meter cupboard. Is this still a no no for some dnos?

The job's in Southam, Warks. I've already called one well respected electrician - I quote his reply - hate the stuff, Avoid at all costs!!!

If it's well over 4 metres then yes you'll need a sw fuse to make it in to a submain. I thought from your OP it was just 4 metres in which case I'd maybe bend the rules a bit, but yes 3 metres is the normal maximum length.

Experience suggests that people who hate the stuff generally either don't know what they are doing, or like my mentor just hate the endless school fire alarm jobs they used to do every summer.

 

[shanky887614]

why not install a kmf fuse in there that should do it

 

[davesparks]

There's already a perfectly good bit of MICC there, why would he want to install inferior cable to replace it??

 

[shanky887614]

There's already a perfectly good bit of MICC there, why would he want to install inferior cable to replace it??

i only read latest couple and confused myself so edited it when i realised my mistake.

the only reason i was going to mention swa was because of the rcd requirement for new installs less than 50mm in the wall and not mechanically protected etc.

micc doesnt need to be because the outer shieth is the earth

 

[davesparks]

So how would you propose to fit a 1" pyro gland onto a KMF switchfuse?
All of the ones I've seen have been plastic jobbies with nowhere to fit a gland.

 

[shanky887614]

So how would you propose to fit a 1" pyro gland onto a KMF switchfuse?
All of the ones I've seen have been plastic jobbies with nowhere to fit a gland.

bs88 switched isolator

 

[davesparks]

You just open yourself up for it don't you!

Switchfuse or switch fuse disconnector would be a bit closer to the mark.

Which is different to a fused switch or fused switch disconnector.

 

[shanky887614]

You just open yourself up for it don't you!

Switchfuse or switch fuse disconnector would be a bit closer to the mark.

Which is different to a fused switch or fused switch disconnector.

personally id just use a 100amp main switch or whatever like everone else does on new builds

 

[davesparks]

Oh dear, a 100Amp main switch is just that, a switch, it does not include any form of OCPD.

An OCPD is required to make this cable in to a submain due to the distance, ideally an HRC fuse rather than an mcb to give it some hope of discriminating.

 

[shanky887614]

Oh dear, a 100Amp main switch is just that, a switch, it does not include any form of OCPD.

An OCPD is required to make this cable in to a submain due to the distance, ideally an HRC fuse rather than an mcb to give it some hope of discriminating.

why not use a mainswitch so there is an isolator, ocpd aditional ofcourse as well.

 

[davesparks]

You said you would use a 100amp main switch or whatever, which reads as though you would install a 100Amp main switch only or something else.